China Romance
General Discussion and Useful Links => The Campfire => Topic started by: Pineau on May 23, 2012, 11:34:52 pm
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Ok another lady friend in China asking for my advice but I cant help her this time. Her husband fights with her constantly but refuses to let her divorce. I have known her for a couple of years and her marriage is hot and cold from day to day. She often leaves him and stays in a hotel or with her parents. The problem is that she paid for the house where they live but he wants the house ( if he agrees to the divorce). I know what to do if this was America but china laws are so different and often flexible. I cant advise her what to do. Most Chinese men have no feelings of responsibility! I am not asking for help. I just want to bitch about it.
You are welcome to use this thread for you own gripes.
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There is some weird things going on across the courtyard. There is this kid that screams and cries at all hours of the day and night. At first I thought he was really sick, then maybe the parents were torturing him. I mean it is really unnerving. I thought about calling child services then realized I am in China. duh... Well its been going on ever since they moved in so I was out on the patio to see if I could determine what was going on. The kid is 2 or 3 years old and starts screaming inside the house but stops when his dad holds him and takes him outside on the patio. When he goes back into the house, in just a little while he will start screaming again. Got the picture?
Well Fiona reminded me that a man died in that house !!! Anyone that rents that place only stays about a month or two then abandons it. There was even performed a House Exorcism Ritual with smoke, ringing bells and loud noises that went on for days to drive his spirit away. I guess the dead guy just don't want to leave.
bizarre to say the least.
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Maybe they should try to evict the dead man. :o
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TO THE MODS>
Do you think it is feasible for the "forum" to create an anonymous ID and log on so members can come here and bitch without fear that there will be repercussions.
Also restrict the use of "anonymous" to REGISTERED members with completed profiles to keep the world from posting here.
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:o :o Gee... Gerry... Did my comment piss you off that much? ;D
I'm not a MOD but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night!
I think what you are asking is dangerous territory. It could be abused so much. I know the mods would be the only ones to know but it sure could get ugly around here real quick.
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Your probably right but I was trying to find a way to vent at he the USCIS, the Chinese government and the likes without them finding out who did it.
I don't know what information the mods are privy to but if they know who is being an ass they can quietly issue warnings without anyone knowing. It would certainly liven up the forum which I think has been almost asleep for a while.
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Your probably right but I was trying to find a way to vent at he the USCIS, the Chinese government and the likes without them finding out who did it.
Gerry, I also have had many times a good reason to blow my top with the USCIS and especially lately with Qing's brother's Visa being denied twice to come andf visit us. I do post steamed thoughts of mine on other places and all I get back is.... blank spot where my Post should have been. So I gave up, nobody want to listen and you can not speak your mind.. even though this is a "Free" country supposely. What I recommend, is take the Dryer Duct hose off.. and "Vent" through there >:( ..... it works!
Regarding your request, Martin must do a Poll/Vote on this for all of the Mods.. but I also see not much chance for it to pass.
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I like Arnold's idea about the vent tube. When I need to yell I either go out into the woods or use my pillow. Tried sticking my head into the lake and yell one. It was great until the second thought. ??? ::) Always remove your head from the water before you go for the second yell. :-\ ;D
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I don't know if they can do it here (and I mentioned this long time ago) there can be a folder/trend that you have to request (the admin) to get into. Had this on another forum years ago. A place where you could say, do, post anything out of the eyes of some that get offended.
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Hey guys...
Just be a bit careful here.
If we create any such place where people can anonymously have a serious gripe, it is likely that a LOT of bad stuff is going to get said about Governments, Agencies (and other people)
Whether we like it or not, a lot of effort is being put in to detect subversive and seditious elements within our society.
Whilst individuals MAY, repeat May not be identified, it is likely that the the Forum itself could well be classed as a place that is suspicious.
I am sure that we dont want this...well I dont anyway.
If you have a need to speak very bad stuff...then sit down and write yourself an email and get it off your chest...better still, get into Politics, get elected President and fix it...other than that...suck it down and get on with life best you can !!!
Just my 2 cents worth.
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Can we restrict the use of the forum to certified members? So if your not a real person you cant just log in and start browsing. Eliminate the guest user and the hidden user.
Tighten the membership requirements a little. Like require a completed profile and proof of identity and location.
Right now the forum is an open door and anyone with an internet connection can go browsing. adolescence boys, old girl friends, ex-wives, attorneys, stalkers, potential employers, your grand mother and governments can access a lot of personal data and inflammatory remarks.
Some of the things I have said about u. s. c. i. s. Could have got my application moved to the bottom of the queue or made it disappear altogether. (and probably did. ) But I needed to say them. not just to vent but to inform the next guy of the potential problems that may occur in the immigration process. If I cant do that then whats the point of me posting at all? But sometime I just don't always feel safe here or comfortable with some of the things I have said.
The old members may remember my original post "recover from an affair" You may be wondering where it went. Well I removed it a while back because it contained too much personal, intimate, and financial data that was open to the public.
To my point, it is 11:00 am in China and 9:00Pm back home. I just checked the forum online status. That's 15 people right now browsing through some 70,000 forum posts on 1,500 topics. We know only 3 of them to be registered users and can be trusted. ( well maybe only two, but I am a special case) .
Guests: 12
Hidden: 0
Users: 3
Users Online:
Pineau
Vxxx
kixxx
Here is a suggestion. Partition the forum so that certain sections like newbies corner are open to the public but the remainder of the posts are restricted to registered and CERTIFIED users.
Just my 3 cents worth.
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My own feelings is that there should be no guests and no hidden viewers. Before they can see members details they should have posted first.
Willy
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Gerry and Willy , I have brought up this several times , as I have seen more than 17 visitors on here at times , obviously gleaning information for their own benefit , with not even a thankyou , regards Robert .
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Yep...If you want to take advantage of the mountain of knowlege and information here....then join up.
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I don't think the visitors is an accurate count. It seems to me that I remember Martin and Irish saying that they needed to delete a few of them to clean it up.
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If you were to close it to registered members only, would Google still index the messages? This was how I found this site when searching for info about a dodgy agency from chnlove. Maybe some topics could be open so there was enough info for Google to trawl.
Steve
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I was quite perturbed when I put my forum name into Google and found pages relating to me. Especially when I put in 'squat toilet' and my name. I mean is that all I am associated with throughout the google world.!!!
Willy
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This topic has been discussed quite a bit..as far back as the early Facebook days. We have warnings posted on this forum about internet trolls and being careful about what you want the world to read.
This site is for information..of which there is a lot. I cant see us changing the policy..but it will be discussed with Irishman.
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Zombie, do you care to elaborate?
should not be obt can not be obtained by guests. Guests can not reach the shoutbox. also guests can not reply to topics.
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If I want to do basic research I can go to Wikipedia which is free and I don't need to register my ID. But if I want detailed information of any kind, like birth, death, marriage, divorce and other personal individual other than myself, I must register and prove who I am and often pay a fee for the information. If I want to check out a book from the library I need to register and get a library card.
In my original post "recover from an affair" I posted enough information about Jing's boyfriend so that any casual user of Google could identify him, blackmail him, and/or destroy his career. That is one reason I deleted the entire thread which is sad because it contained a lot of real life useful information for other members.
I don't want to get into a tug of war over this but I think that just warning members that there are bad people out there trolling the forum posts is not enough to keep them being open honest and frank when making comments on the forum.
There is a clear and distinct line between general information, pointing people in the right direction to help them on their way and information that is personal in nature and meant to be viewed by the members here that want to share the experience.
I know it would be a lot of work to partition the forum into public and private sections but you only have to do it once.
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If you have a need to speak very bad stuff...then sit down and write yourself an email and get it off your chest...better still, get into Politics, get elected President and fix it...other than that...suck it down and get on with life best you can !!!
I have to agree, not just because Big Brother might be watching. Unfortunately, there is often no clear and distinct line between the two kinds of personal. There is personal meaning private and confidential and there is personal meaning offensive.
I can understand the need to keep some things private on a public forum, we all do that, but if the useful personal info is only available to certified members, the majority of them will be married and experienced on this journey and will be unlikely to need the information as much as the newbies. At the same time, being able to vent might get us into the realm of the political, religious or downright offensive to someone, someone's country, someone's cherished beliefs. Would we expect the moderators to turn a blind eye to something which would break the forum's rules in the 'public' forum? Would they say, 'Oh, he was just venting. He wasn't really blaming (insert person/group) for his predicament'? It is sometimes faceless bureaucrats who make us angry. It is sometimes specific people.
I'm with Shaun. I will go to the woods to let off steam. I don't need an audience.
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Hmmm, Stay out of anyone's marriage,, Once we are married there is no room for any friends , male or female??, Some people will ask for ask of advice without the knowledge of their spouse as they can get no advice from anywhere else, WE DON'T LIKE THE IDEA OF OUR WIFE'S HAVING SOME NEW MALE FRIEND UNLESS HE IS" OUR "FRIEND ????, you are saying unless he is approved from the "HUSBAND" Then She has no right to have any male friends?? But I bet you think it is "OK" for the husband to have many female friends ????, AM I CORRECT ???? John :o
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John, you should take into consideration the country Zombie states as his own - Cambodia. My first wife immigrated from Central America (traditional Catholic values and Latino male dominated centric views) when she was 17. She became friends with a single male coworker, who inturn became my best friend. My mother-in-law did not like the idea that I would allow my wife the freedom to socialise with my best friend. I trusted my friend, and I trusted my wife.
Since I have a new wife now, I can see Zombie's viewpoint. I will not stop my wife on having new friends, but also if I do not agree with some of her friends, I will no sit ideally by. My first marriage killed the idealist in me.
I will agree with you John, and disagree with Zombie, because at times people do need help. Although getting involved into people's personal lives could be fraught with misinformation, as both sides will feel justified and embellish details to make the other look bad. But sometimes, and usually it is the male, there is danger to the other spouse and/or children.
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I am western, not Khmer or any other Asian culture. I just live here now.
Sorry for my wrong assumption Zombie.
I agree that without knowing both sides of the story, any advice given could be just advice that the person wants to hear to justify their own postion. Emotions run high with the possibility of marriage break up. If violence is happening, or threatend - then the only offer of help can be to help the person to seek safety. Our western sense of judgment and acting the hero can also blind use as I have heard of cases where the woman will fabricate and also cause personal injury to blackball her spouse, as the usuall assumption is that the man only does violence.
Since I have already lived through one marriage, I understand that sometimes marriages do die. I am not tied by a religious sense that a broken marriage is a failure. Yes I had wished that my marriage succeeded. She wanted to leave.
I think a big understand to realise is that there are bad marriages, but a failed marriage is not BAD. From any failure, it is what you learn and can apply to make your life better that should be considered. A marriage is always a work in progress, but a person's life is more than just the successes they have had. It is usually through failure that most of life's lessons are learned.
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If a marriage is shaky enough to the point where the fear "a male friend could be considered a potential lover" is in your mind, then a disaster is likely to happen anyway.
I could care less if Ming has male freinds that I dont approve of, because I am certain that if she wanted to throw away our marriage by infidelity, then I cant stop her...there is obviously something wrong with the relationship if she felt the need/desire to go down this track. I am sure a lot of wives and husbands have temptaton AND opportunity to "play away", If that is a fear that keeps you awake, then you dont really have a marriage.
Being married does not imply ownership of either party, the fear of infidelity is a very weak glue for a marriage. I have no right to dictate who she chooses as friends, I can only advise and counsel her, but I cannot ban it....neither would I want to.
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For some reason I cant edit my last post, but I wanted to add a bit more.....
"These are my values, and in the open Forum that we have here, I have a right to state them. What I DONT have is a right than anybody else has to agree with them. Others must have the right to discuss, debate, challenge or ignore them as they see fit.....I can deal with that !!!!!!
Cheers...David
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If a marriage is shaky enough to the point where the fear "a male friend could be considered a potential lover" is in your mind, then a disaster is likely to happen anyway.
Infidelity does not necessarily happen because a marriage is on shaky ground, although having a partner caught in this situation can tear apart a marriage. In my case, I didn't find out about the infidelity until later. Part of the reason is that I never considered that she would cheat because I thought that we had a good marriage. She had been cheating with my best friend anywhere from one to three years. She wasn't happy in our marriage and told me that she never let on because she didn't want to break my heart, but with time, couldn't live with the lie.
My pain was threefold: of course the first was feeling a failure at a failed marriage, second that it was her and my best friend and the betrayal of trust, but also third that some how I had contributed to her living in a marriage that was hurting her. With her being a devoted Catholic, I can only imagine the religious guilt she was carrying.
I am also privy to an others story but will not say whom and when he found out that a single man was paying extra attention to his wife, he straight up confronted her and made her make a decision on what came first in her life. I will not stop my wife from having male friends, but I will also not allow her to freely mingle with single men if I am not attending the event. But also in my case, my wife now does not have the same personality as my first wife. My first wife did like to party and drink, and booze is sometimes that toxic excuse that others use to fuel their indiscretions.
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If we don't speak from our own value system, where can we speak from? Where do our values come from? It must be from our experience, our upbringing, our culture, our personality.
This is my first marriage and I have not had the misfortune of a previous betrayal to compare with my present situation. I trust my wife implicitly: does that make me naive? Surely if I didn't trust her, that mistrust would have a pretty good chance of breaking the relationship even before any infidelity had a chance of happening. We are both adults and I would hope that we can be honest enough to confront our problems. Using alcohol as an excuse is just plain childish. My wife trusts me, but she lacks a little belief in herself, so she often tells me that if I fall in love with someone else, then she is happy if I am happy. I think this is her way of protecting herself, but she has no need to worry. In fact, in her heart of hearts, she knows that I'm not going anywhere. Part of the problem is the seeds of doubt her friends sow in her mind.
Like most men here, I have to endure enforced periods of absence from my wife. Life would be even more miserable than it is at these times, if I added 'lack of trust from a distance' to the mix. "Where have you been? Who did you go with? Were you ever alone with a man?", etc.
I agree with David, "Being married does not imply ownership of either party, the fear of infidelity is a very weak glue for a marriage". If my wife and I didn't trust each other, we would make for a pretty sorry pair. "That money I gave you, what exactly did you spend it on? Where are the receipts? That time I called you last week. Did I hear a man's voice in the background?"
I don't really care if a Chinese husband is typically more possessive than a Western husband. My values don't come from following types or stereotypes. I am a little possessive myself, though not jealous, and recognize it as a fault of mine rather than just accept it. My wife can freely mingle with whomsoever she likes. If she needs my permission or my presence to do so, all I can say is, it will be a pretty depressing evening for everyone.
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I trust my wife implicitly: does that make me naive? Surely if I didn't trust her, that mistrust would have a pretty good chance of breaking the relationship even before any infidelity had a chance of happening. We are both adults and I would hope that we can be honest enough to confront our problems.........My wife can freely mingle with whomsoever she likes. If she needs my permission or my presence to do so, all I can say is, it will be a pretty depressing evening for everyone.
The setting of boundaries is not about the idea of having trust but insuring an increased chance of a solid marriage. A lock's main deterant is not that it protects us from evil people but that it keeps honest people honest. The main reason I trusted my first wife and my friend was the naive outlook that since I trusted myself that I would never cheat, they would act the same. This of course I see was foolish and naive. But it is not just infidelity that can be addressed. In the future one partner could develop an addiction - let us suppose a gambling addiction. What now are the odds that any new friend that likes to gamble would be looked upon favorably by the other partner!
22 percent of married men have strayed at least once during their married lives.
14 percent of married women have had affairs at least once during their married lives.
Younger people are more likely candidates; in fact, younger women are as likely as younger men to be unfaithful.
70 percent of married women and 54 percent of married men did not know of their spouses' extramarital activity.
5 percent of married men and 3 percent of married women reported having sex with someone other than their spouse in the year1997.
22 percent of men and 14 percent of women admitted to having sexual relations outside their marriage sometime in their past.
90 percent of Americans believe adultery is morally wrong.
50 percent of Americans say President Clinton's adultery makes his moral standard "about the same as the average married man,'' according to a Time-CNN poll.
61 percent of Americans thought adultery should not be a crime in the United states; 35 percent thought it should; 4 percent had no opinion.
17 percent of divorces in the United States are caused by infidelity.
Source: Associated Press
Recent studies reveal that 45-55% of married women and 50-60% of married men engage in extramarital sex at some time or another during their relationship (Atwood & Schwartz, 2002 - Journal of Couple & Relationship Therapy)
I post these above notes not to say live in fear of infidelity as I do not think my wife or I will cheat. And I think it is quite different that your spouse can engage in conversation when meeting friends in passing, this is just being socialable. When a woman moves in to live with us we already accept the fact that some of our own personal behaviours will change or be modified. If children are introduced, we modify even more, so why is it assumed that believing that our wives are also asked to modify her social sphere, as a negative?
When I became serious with my wife during or EMF campaign, I voluntarily took my profile off of being visible & she did the same after. In my mind that is no different than expressing a comment on who we each befriend.
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When you look at those stats Rhon, about the rates of adultery etc. does it not hammer home the real truth ???.....you cannot conceive of any mechanism that will totally prevent a lot of partners straying from the straight and narrow !! You can bluff, bully, cajole, threaten, intimidate either partner into fidelity...but sooner or later an opportunity could well present itself where somebody stumbles.
I am sure that all of us have these opportunities pass our way quite often...so why do we, or do we NOT succumb to the temptation ???
Morality hardly figures nowadays, I am told that adulterers can still go to Heaven, and apart from some of our more lunatic cultures, the Law or the Church wont execute you for it either.
Fear of the social stigma of getting caught and exposed to your peers is not much of a threat either.
Our modern children have become accepting of single parent families due to marriage breakups, usually via adultery.
Our Legal systems basically care only about the fiscal arrangements, not the moral ones.
So there are no deterrents..........only that of the desire of both parties to continue a monogamous relationship.
What I believe is that, free from "artificial" impediments, the human animal is reverting to type and behaving just as most, repeat most ,of the natural world behaves....ie monogamy is a human made condition that is unnatural....(yes, I know you can quote a few examples in nature of monogamous pairings, but these are a tiny statistical minority).
So live each day in the knowlege that the only thing that keeps us together is our basic desire to be with the other partner.....for as long as it suits each other's individual drives and needs....nothing can be guaranteed and all the rules, regulations and restrictions wont mean a fig if either party feels the need to stray.
I cannot agree that removing an active profile from CHNLove has any relevance to who either party could and will be-friend down the track...it is not the same thing. In these early days it represents only a single act of good faith...not a permission to then dictate how a Partner will run his or her life into the future relationship.
And finally to Zombie.........I also cannot see where any different morality or any different Man could have prevented your wife from "falling prey" to a scum-bag.........it was her choice, she weighed up the pros and cons and made a decision.....sadly you lost...but ultimately everybody lost. If there was zero need...she would have zero response to such an approach.
It is similar to the scammer issue we all face in International/Internet Dating.....if you never send money...you never get scammed and scammers cease to exist.
If there was never a need ( of whatever definition) for a partner to stray, then monogamy would rule and adultery would be just a theory...and not the very common reality we are seeing in our "modern" world.
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David who says an adulterer can go to heaven? I am assuming you are speaking of some Christian organization. That completely contradicts what the Bible says.
Morality and ethics are questionable today. I guess this is one of the reason I went for an older Chinese woman. They are cut and dried in what they believe. Not at all like an American woman.
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Shaun
I attended a meeting last week (it was about a Charity function, of which I am the Sponsor)
After the meeting there was a discussion of sorts amongst some of us, which included a "gentleman of the cloth"
As you can imagine, he and I gently crossed swords over many issues, one of which was my query that heaven must be getting very crowded about now, considering the billions of people who have allegedly gone there....but I opined ??? that it was a lonely place because he told me that only "people" who had a soul could get to heaven...no dogs, cats, birds, fish, plants, bacteria, amoebas, etc etc.
The subject of thieves, murderers, corporate criminals, adulterers, fornicators all got discussed and I was told that provided ANY type of "nasty" human repented before death they could indeed go to heaven....
So I assumed heaven is filled with "repentant" adulterers too.
But as you know, I dont have any expertise in this matter...just passing on wisdom from somebody I thought had a mandate on the truth !!!!
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David that is a subject that Christian can't even agree on therefore might be a subject for the other thread. :o
I wish I had been a fly on the wall in that meeting though. I imagine you had him in your cross hairs a couple of times. But you being the consummate gentleman let him out easily and kept it on the light side.
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Observing life, among many observations I think my cat is more likely to "go to heaven" than many scumbags who confess to a priest every week.
That would imply that Catholics are scumbags :o
I remember reading a book set at the turn of the century in the American South West. The some time trouble maker/ part time hero, the protagonist of the book, noted that the towns he frequented were either Catholic based (due to a large Mexican/American population) or a Protestant town. He noted that Friday & Saturday nights the Catholic based town was were the fun was to be had, while the Protestant based town was a bore. He attributed it to the ability to ease the guilt by confession for the Catholic towns. But I would dare say that the Protestant towns would hold an equal sway of scumbags.
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David that is a subject that Christian can't even agree on therefore might be a subject for the other thread. :o
But even if Christians did finally come to an agreement, it would not make it a fact. We would need someone to come from the other side where the light is brighter with the official rules & regulations of Heaven before we could say in confidence what grade point average we needed to get in. I am sure it would not be 4.0 (being perfect) but maybe only a reasonable 3.1415 - after all, who doesn't like a little pie?
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1. I am well aware of that. Already covered under "morale". You are suggesting she had a need (implying to put blame on the husband as well), rather than a desire (like a horny animal). What authority are you on matters like this? You might be less judgemental on people who share their misfortunes.
2. Yep, never marry so no wife will ever do you wrong.
3. We are talking about "civilised people", in a "civilised" society. Not discussing monkeys.
1) I am as much an authority on these matters as any person who has lived a full life with all it's ups and downs. My comments are not judgemental, they are observations made from My own unique
experiences which of course are different from yours or anybody else's. Yes she had a need, I cant define what this need was all about, dont have enough info. dont need it. But sure, she had a need and it
happened. Need, desire, horny, lonely, unfulfilled, drunk, stupid ...put any label on it that you choose you cant change the outcome. To imply that anything I said assumed any level of blame on either party
is a pure wild assumption on your part. There is NO blame in these situations....just facts..
2) Wrong....marry if you choose and enjoy every wonderful moment......only dont expect that nothing bad can happen...and when it does...you dont die, you dust off, get up and carry on with life...a bit wiser
maybe...but nil desperandum.
3) Civilised...civilised.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..you have the nerve to label modern humans as civilised. Mate, the monkeys have got it over us every time in this department.
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3) Civilised...civilised.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..you have the nerve to label modern humans as civilised. Mate, the monkeys have got it over us every time in this department.
Speak for yourself, DavidE :-)
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It is similar to the scammer issue we all face in International/Internet Dating.....if you never send money...you never get scammed and scammers cease to exist.
I disagree with this statement. Yes if you don't send money you won't be scammed out of the money. But scammers are like mosquito's always intrested in drawing blood. Maybe this time they only got some personal information or maybe a friends name. Never sending money is a good safe guideline that will get rid of the majority of easy scams but just like insect repellent, it is not total protection.
There are enough stories that scammers will gather enough information about someone, and will send requests to relatives or close friends with the intent to pose as that person and saying because of an emergency please send funds.
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I am reading this thread and want to know ZOMBIE why??? are you being so aggressive from the very start?
You are telling 'us' something and then trying too (notice I said TRYING) to verbally attack anyone that types something..
If you dont like the info anyone gives why dont you just p..s off instead of attacking those giving the info
To the Mods and others...Sorry for the outburst but this guy has done nothing but (in my eyes) verbally attack other brothers
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:o ??? :( ::) ;) :-\ :-X
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Observing life, among many observations I think my cat is more likely to "go to heaven" than many scumbags who confess to a priest every week.
That would imply that Catholics are scumbags :o
Not at all. I was comparing my cat to many scumbags. That's very different to saying all Catholics are scumbags.
Sorry if my post offended you, but won't be posting again. I felt that DavidE was attacking me and being judgemental.
I removed all other posts, everybody happy :)
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Not at all. I was comparing my cat to many scumbags. That's very different to saying all Catholics are scumbags.
Sorry if my post offended you, but won't be posting again. I also removed all other posts, everybody happy :)
I was just doing a tongue in check reference to your comment and did not take offense. Although some of your posts might seem a bit vocal to long time members here - especially with you just starting here - I can also see the sincerity in your observation. I think David's comments hit close to home for you with personal reference to you own situation.
Sometimes we post here in generalities, but in sensitive situations people tend to think the observations are too direct.
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To the Mods and others...Sorry for the outburst but this guy has done nothing but (in my eyes) verbally attack other brothers
I try to see the logic & knowledge in a statement first, before I try to let the tone of any statement affect me. I can see Zombie's point of view, although yes, his tone was aggressive. But Rob, his own situation that he contributed to was also attacked and he took offense to David's tone. Of course us longer time members are use to David's method for getting his point across and did not see it as such.
Sometimes we on this site let our masculinity get in the way of our manhood - the below from
http://www.tnation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/the_testosterone_principles_the_antipussification_program (http://www.tnation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/the_testosterone_principles_the_antipussification_program)
Note that there's a big difference between the two words, masculinity and manhood. Masculinity is a psychological characteristic that evolved to support the demands of being male. It manifested itself in a need to compete with other males for resources and sex. If resources and sex weren''t an issue, it sometimes manifested itself in destruction, rebellion, and anger.
Manhood, however, is culturally defined. It channels the energy of Testosterone into socially acceptable or downright pro-social activities. Without the right kind of socialization, you and I might be in street gangs or have ended up in jail. We might be serial wife beaters or strung out on drugs. We might be too aggressive or hostile to even hold down a job. Or, we could go in the opposite but equally lamentable direction and turn into Ryan Seacrest.
This isn't the first thread were we ever had words getting heated, but then we usually do have new members introduce themselves first before diving into the deep end.
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Oh Dear Mr Zombie
You have managed to contribute 18 posts in a very short time to this Forum.
Your first post was (IMHO) contentious and inflammatory.
Next you decided that John 1964 was stupid
Next you consider that I talk like an idiot (but not calling me an idiot ) !!!!!!
You share nothing with us about your life...yet you feel the need to dictate your views on everybody else.
Let me ask you....which one of us is descending to personal abuse and villification ????
If you want to come here and just flame everybody, dont complain when some of us bark back.
If you want to contribute...that's great.
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Sorry Rhonald, but please point out to me where he was attacked, I saw genuine answer being given then zombie doing the macho piece. sorry if I offended anyone :-X :-X
I would not have minded if this person had done a few postings or introduced himself to the group... :-X :-X
Well said David
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My take is that he was being intentional in his attacks. I thought he was trying to stir the pudding between David and me so I didn't post anymore.
It appeared to me that he knew way too much about some of us and he talked like he had been a part of the forum. It would not surprise me at all to find out that he was a former member that had been banned. And before anyone jumps to any conclusions I am not, I repeat am not suggesting that it was one person in particular. There have been a few people banned from this site.
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Your first post was (IMHO) contentious and inflammatory.
Next you decided that John 1964 was stupid
Since he has deleted his posts and I think, run away, I only can cut and paste this part I had from a personal letter to him: Personally, I think we should stay out of anyone's marriage.
Now right after this John posted his comment & in Part : Hmmm, Stay out of anyone's marriage,, Once we are married there is no room for any friends , male or female??,
Zombie was refering to staying out of people's marriage to the part of Gerry saying that he was being asked to give advice on a marriage. It had nothing to do with making new friends or keeping old friends. He tried to shed light on what might be the Chines male viewpoint but it seems like, on his viewpoint he was gang tackled.
And Rob he did share information about his previous marriage. David's part: If there was zero need...she would have zero response to such an approach. I could see that someone could view the statement as a personal attack as in - if you were man enough, she would never had left you. Know I know that was not David's intent but I can see the reference.
It seems like Zombie has now left the fold and I think why am I defending him? My reason is because at other times I have seen our members here dissolve into emotional responses that flame the fans. Now I understand Willy likes a little flame, but I rather not see my stake over cooked but enjoy a medium rare steak.
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My take is that he was being intentional in his attacks. I thought he was trying to stir the pudding between David and me so I didn't post anymore.
Shaun, it shows how different people will have a different take. Now I agree that he could have been trying to rile David, but I did not see any of his posts directed at you. He did make a reference towards morality, but besides his rebuttal to John, his words were mainly directed to David.
I also agree that the thought crossed my mind that he might have joined to spark a response ie: my reference to jumping off the deep end, but if you wished to see if that was the case, more posts would have been needed.
I thought he had some valid points, but decided to quit to0 soon. So all that is left is just us blowing in the wind.
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There is always "quite" after the "storm", but sometimes it leaves a mess behind it!
I have kept an eye on the Storm from a safe place and like Shaun, I'm also pretty sure it was a former Member here. So I let it play out, as this was the "Gripe Box" after all.. and just to see where we are going with this. To get an idea, do we or not open a thread section where some can/will blow some steam off as was suggested earlier. We see this is not a good idea, what do we really gain or do we lose by it? It also wasn't the first time we tried this and it will simply not work, besides what information do we get out of it what this forum represents?
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Sorry if my post offended you, but won't be posting again. I felt that DavidE was attacking me and being judgemental.
I removed all other posts, everybody happy :)
Would the former member be the type to submit an apology? If he has become more devious than YES
But I also have a strong feeling that it could have been someone new.
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I have been holding my tongue, but Scottish Rob pointed out what I was thinking...and David E summed it all up nicely. Zombie, I don't know who you are, but like David E said, you opened up a Pandora's Box, and we know nothing about you. If you go through the different threads on this site, you will see that we all generally share something about ourselves here. I get the feeling that maybe you have been on this site before..maybe under a different name?
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Yep, It was a gripe box after all. Nothing wrong with a gripe box if people dont descend to slinging off about personalities.
There are many, many differing points of view on this Forum about life, love and all such things and we have somehow managed to share so much without a huge amount of friction...good for us.
You can easily see on other Fora where the art of personal villification has been taken to dizzying heights and has become the only objective.
Each of us has a different perspective, a different style and whilst we disagree on many things, we dont just throw cr#p at the other members.
Each of us has shared a lot of special insights about our lives and our loves with the other Bros...we do this because we feel safe to do so, safe from ridicule and safe from abuse. Knowing that there is always some advice and info. forthcoming that may help...even though sometimes we dont like the advice !!!.
So gripe by all means...dont abuse.......
I have no wish to see Zombie , or any "new" member remove his/her posts and leave, but if Zombie was really interested in this Brotherhood, he/she would share someting with us, get to know us, and then could truly participate for everybody's benefit.
Just my 2 cents worth
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Just my 2 cents worth
Soon, you are going to owe a lot of money. Do you want my account number?
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You need a firm GRIP Emotionly before you dare to GRIPE. And Martin you can take my two scents too on account that I am fuming.
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I get the feeling that maybe you have been on this site before..maybe under a different name?
Think your probably right Martin. Even his chosen name implies that as 'Zombie' Which I guess is a person back from the dead!
Willy
Not sure how I came into this Rhonald?
'Now I understand Willy likes a little flame, but I rather not see my stake over cooked but enjoy a medium rare steak.'
But it was too high brow for me to get my head round. I left it alone to you brainy ones. Mind you, surely his IP would give an idea where he joined from?
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Willy, you are the guy that says that sometimes it is a little too dry here as you do like to stir the pot. Heck I even made a trip to see you because of some previous pot stirring you did!
Maybe some of you who think I am attacking their country or their situations can now see the reason for it. Some of my postings are an attack, but not on individuals or groups as such but an attack on apathy as a whole. I just like to see this Forum active.
I actually thought his earlier comment thought provoking, enough so, that I discussed some of his meaning with my son. My son will turn 17 soon and at the time of my first marriage, he really liked my best friend. To be honest guys, some of your good weather comments about having no concerns on whom your wife will befriend and hang out with reflects a condition that violates reality. I might not be as blunt as Zombie, but since I have a son that is also learning from my misadventures, and as Philip has stated - I over think things too much - I try to trim the fat (from the male cow) over statements and seek the kernel of wisdom hidden away.
Now my son has made his peace with his mom's new boyfriend, since the two live together, but still his thoughts will have been shapened by events. I know I have changed in my outlook. I do not stop my wife from making new friends. She is a friendly outgoing woman. Her new business has her dealing mainly with ladies, but some men have expressed interest in her music teaching. But if an unmarried or even married male friend/student/ or teacher keeps asking her out for a dinner (just the two of them)..... comes to a point were good weather comments need an umbrella.
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Rhonald I too suffered the indignity of losing my wife to my best friends 'brother in law'. She had male friends as I had female friends. NEVER in a month of Sundays did I ever think she would cheat on me.
Now any relationship I get into (cough cough 8)) I will STILL not stop my partner from having male friends...
I do not think it is healthy or wise in a relationship to try and stop your partner from having friends from the opposite sex
To stop them would be to destroy a possible GOOD relationship
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Zombie Ip address is from San Fransisco
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To stop them would be to destroy a possible GOOD relationship
It's not the stopping of friendship that I am directing my stance at. It is the seriousness of it. Instead, lets turn it around and think we are that single male making a friendship with a married woman, let us say a co-worker. Now if I valued her, I would also know that rumors can tarnish a person's reputation. Now if I had two tickets to some show, I would not think it right to ask her to the show. If she was single, sure. So a woman's marital status I think affects how you deal with them.
So if my wife's friend, to me, did not consider this in his dealings with her, I would force an issue. My wife's clientele are all in the Chinese community so how deep can discreation matter even if nothing sinister is at play?
On a side note - my wife received today 24 of the instruments she plays. She says the money is in the selling, not the teaching. Originally she wanted to buy 40, but I had to hold her back. With her original trip here, she sold 3 of the 7 instruments she brought with her. I rather start conservative and told her that until we get a feel for the market, better start slow.
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Thinking that this is a gripe box and I mentioned about my wife's shipment of guzhengs, I do have something to gripe at.
Being our first major shipment for commercial purposes, we had the fun of getting all the proper licenses and paying fees before customs would release the goods in Vancover for delievery to Calgary. Well I could apply online to get our import business license that we forwarded to our broker to forward to customs. I travelled to the company's office and paid the shipping fees, also through them the customs duty and sales tax.
That afternoon we received the email from our broker saying that she had good news and bad news. The good news was that customs released our goods. The bad news was that they charged us a shipment inspection fee :o
I can't wait for this philosophy to catch on. Imagine the police pulling you over for a Breathalyzer test and charge you a fee, or if Airport security had an extra fee because they decide to do a closer check on your luggage.
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Her new business has her dealing mainly with ladies, but some men have expressed interest in her music teaching. But if an unmarried or even married male friend/student/ or teacher keeps asking her out for a dinner (just the two of them)..... comes to a point were good weather comments need an umbrella.
Rhon
No way could I disagree with this situation.
If my wife was asked to dinner by a male friend, I would expect that she sought my endorsement BEFORE the event. But my point is that for her to go to dinner (or some such other one-on-one meeting) without my knowlege would be getting a bit close to the bone for my liking.
However...if she DID go out with another Man in secret I personally, repeat personally would consider our marriage at serious risk when I finally found out.
If, for instance , your wife discussed with you that she wanted to meet a prospective music client for dinner because it could be good for her Businesss, then maybe you would look at it in a different light ?????
If my wife told me shewas going to dinner with a male friend...just for the fun of it...I would likely explode !!!!! as I am sure most husbands would...rightly so.
There must be a boundary as you say...to have male friends as partof an overall social circle does not seem bad to me, to go into private one-on-one situations with other Men...seems VERY bad to me.
What got up my nose was the sweeping statement from a first time poster that the marriage under discussion by Pineau was in trouble because the wife had male friends...even though we dont know if the husband was an adulterer, a wife beater or just an opportunist looking for a way to hang on to his wife's home for himself !!!!
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1. I am well aware of that. Already covered under "morale". You are suggesting she had a need (implying to put blame on the husband as well), rather than a desire (like a horny animal). What authority are you on matters like this? You might be less judgemental on people who share their misfortunes.
2. Yep, never marry so no wife will ever do you wrong.
3. We are talking about "civilised people", in a "civilised" society. Not discussing monkeys.
1) I am as much an authority on these matters as any person who has lived a full life with all it's ups and downs. My comments are not judgemental, they are observations made from My own unique
experiences which of course are different from yours or anybody else's. Yes she had a need, I cant define what this need was all about, dont have enough info. dont need it. But sure, she had a need and it
happened. Need, desire, horny, lonely, unfulfilled, drunk, stupid ...put any label on it that you choose you cant change the outcome. To imply that anything I said assumed any level of blame on either party
is a pure wild assumption on your part. There is NO blame in these situations....just facts..
2) Wrong....marry if you choose and enjoy every wonderful moment......only dont expect that nothing bad can happen...and when it does...you dont die, you dust off, get up and carry on with life...a bit wiser
maybe...but nil desperandum.
3) Civilised...civilised.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..you have the nerve to label modern humans as civilised. Mate, the monkeys have got it over us every time in this department.
I read the posts since I "left" and in my defence decided to respond to some. Starting with this one:
Item 3 totally invalidates my statement. Undermines any basis for ongoing discussion, and does come across as a personal attack ("you have the nerve...").
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If, for instance , your wife discussed with you that she wanted to meet a prospective music client for dinner because it could be good for her Businesss, then maybe you would look at it in a different light ?????
Hopefully not candle light! ???
David this situation is different because how can they be friends if they are just metting, as you said - prospective client.
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I am reading this thread and want to know ZOMBIE why??? are you being so aggressive from the very start?
You are telling 'us' something and then trying too (notice I said TRYING) to verbally attack anyone that types something..
If you dont like the info anyone gives why dont you just p..s off instead of attacking those giving the info
To the Mods and others...Sorry for the outburst but this guy has done nothing but (in my eyes) verbally attack other brothers
This post is an attack on me, nothing less ("... why don't you just piss off.. ". Show me where I attacked anyone???
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3) Civilised...civilised.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..you have the nerve to label modern humans as civilised. Mate, the monkeys have got it over us every time in this department.
[/quote]
Come on zombie there is no way this can be called a personal attack if the whole sentence is taken in context :(
Does it mean then because he called you '"Mate'" that you are BEST FRIENDS???
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yyou decided that John 1964 was stupid
Next you consider that DAVID E talked like an idiot (but not calling him an idiot ) !!!!!!
And I would have put the posting up for you to reread, if you had not deleted them!!!
Also to David E "What authority are you on matters like this?" you wrote
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Well since the original posts have been removed from the order they were responded in, it is hard to show the route of deterioration.
I would say that Zombie's first two posts were strong but not directed at anyone - except that I could see Gerry taking exception to the problem being Foreign friends.
But from what I remember and sorry John1964 ( I really enjoy your story and contribution here) but your post asked him a direct question that was not related to Zombie's previous post. Zombie replied badly in calling you stupid which for a newbee poster was wrong. But from all the capitalising and giff images, it was like you were shouting at him.
And after this it went down hill in a hurry.
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Come on Rhonald, we are westerners here, we KNOW the using cap locks does not mean we are shouting!!!
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Well I deleted Zombie's last post because he reverted to name calling. Give a man a chance to defend him self - gladly, but mud slinging aint defending. Use logic to defend youself as I can see David does have some holes in his defense. But with a diatribe of insults, I begin to believe that I was wrong in my assumption about you Zombie.
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Sorry if my post offended you, but won't be posting again. I felt that DavidE was attacking me and being judgemental.
I removed all other posts, everybody happy :)
Would the former member be the type to submit an apology? If he has become more devious than YES
But I also have a strong feeling that it could have been someone new.
Certainly I would submit an apology, if warranted. In fact my first word in the quoted post was "Sorry...".
But I don't belong here. I do not engage in assumtions or cheap chit-chat. This looks like a private club rather than a public forum.
Yes, I do take offense to some of DavidE's posts.
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Just don't name call as it does not point to what you take offense to. As to private - I have had many rebuttals to my viewpoint on YouTube and it seems insult is the only seasoning they know to pepper your argument with. SO this site is not private but is moderated. For sure long time members will be given the benefit of the doubt.
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Now I deleted Rob's post - in his defense - Zombies - Rob your comment was tit for tat.
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Now I deleted Rob's post - in his defense - Zombies - Rob your comment was tit for tat.
yes I agree and also childish.. however in my defense it seems like we are dealing with a child!!
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Certainly I would submit an apology, if warranted. In fact my first word in the quoted post was "Sorry...".
But I don't belong here. I do not engage in assumtions or cheap chit-chat. This looks like a private club rather than a public forum.
Yes, I do take offense to some of DavidE's posts.
Why do you say that you do not belong here? Why not tell us a little about yourself. Are you with a Chinese woman? Dating? Married? None of the above? We know nothing about you. Please dont accuse us of being a private club..all are welcome, but this is a pretty specific forum, with the main topic being dating and or marrying a Chinese woman. Are you doing either?
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ok...zombie I apologise for carrying on in such a manner to a newbie..
Givee us a little bit of info about yourself and questions raised by martin
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What got up my nose was the sweeping statement from a first time poster that the marriage under discussion by Pineau was in trouble because the wife had male friends...even though we dont know if the husband was an adulterer, a wife beater or just an opportunist looking for a way to hang on to his wife's home for himself !!!!
Let me say this again... I take offence to this statement. Besides, you don't need to know other details because I was not asking you for advise.
I came here to point out that if we want to help someone in a marriage, we need to look at the other partner also. Nothing more than that but was asked to clarify and my clarification was not appreciated.
Most help usually comes in the form of where to find a lawyer, or how to exit the marriage etc. instead of counsel to the person.
This forum appears to be handled like a private club, rather than a public forum.
I am finished here, I don't want to discuss anything further. I have better things to do with my time.
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Now I deleted Rob's post - in his defense - Zombies - Rob your comment was tit for tat.
yes I agree and also childish.. however in my defense it seems like we are dealing with a child!!
Yet another provocative post!!!
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to which i have apologised
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I am finished here, I don't want to discuss anything further. I have better things to do with my time.
Your choice. Nice to meet you. Bye.
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Willy, you are the guy that says that sometimes it is a little too dry here as you do like to stir the pot. Heck I even made a trip to see you because of some previous pot stirring you did!
Yes but I never had a hand in getting this one going. >:( >:(
Willy
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Yes but I never had a hand in getting this one going. >:( >:(
Willy
[/quote]
only because you were too busy elsewhere!!! :o :o :o ;D ;D
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This forum appears to be handled like a private club, rather than a public forum.
In a way you are correct. On a public forum you usually don't give out personal information in the way of an introduction. Kind of like walking into a bar and starting in on an argument just to be heard. In more serious functions you extend your hand and introduce yourself then graciously enter into any discourse. Of course not introducing yourself first will have others cast a doubt - on bad manners. The internet is rife with bad behaviour as society is being reduced one key stroke at a time.
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Well guys I need my beauty sleep so I'm off to bed.
Goodnight to all, and Mr Zombie it was nice to know you ;D ;D...hold on we only know your name and ip address ;D ;D
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Being a gripe box, I will post my second gripe of today.
How many people know that vermilion is red? - I know I didn't. The picture shows the jacket I thought I was buying :-\
Now I got to return my internet purchase. Devolving one key stroke at a time.
LiveOutThere.com:
That is our fault. Vermillion is in fact a red colour and what was showing on the site is "Hunter Green," which we are sold out of. The Greenback is a similar colour and is actually miles darker than the image on the site. It's quite close to an olive green. Please let us know if you'd like to get that or a refund of your money. Our sincere apologies. Liam
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The same day - Monday, I also used the machine to buy a Coke. The machine thought it would be great to hold onto my money for me while dispensing no drink. I told my co-worker friend - no not a woman :-\ and he suggested I buy a lottery ticket since when times are good, I never win.
Normalise was returned as I did not win, and neither anything else bad befell me.
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Well I deleted Zombie's last post because he reverted to name calling. Give a man a chance to defend him self - gladly, but mud slinging aint defending. Use logic to defend youself as I can see David does have some holes in his defense. But with a diatribe of insults, I begin to believe that I was wrong in my assumption about you Zombie.
Moi !!!!! ::) ::) ::)....holes in my defence......never....holes in my socks yes........but my defense of my opinion is resolute and will be defended.....sometimes with "tongue--in-cheek"
Lighten up Zombie, get with the spirit of this Forum and enjoy the interaction with a bloody good bunch of guys.....
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ps.....
Willy
Are you SURE you did not get another IP Address and it's really you in the backgraound being mischievious !!!!!!
I could believe that ;D ;D ;D
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Moi !!!!! ::) ::) ::)....holes in my defence......never....holes in my socks yes........but my defense of my opinion is resolute and will be defended.....sometimes with "tongue--in-cheek"
Yes sometimes tongue-in-cheek, which I thank you for but holes come about when talking about absolutes.
If there was zero need...she would have zero response to such an approach.
I would say that there is always a need, it is just the degree of the need and the moral fiber of the person in question. From what I have read, most women who do cheat do it because they feel that something is missing from their life. And if the lack is strong enough, or the morale fiber weak, a nudge is all that is needed. Absolute zero degree of need means entropy has reached its minimum value. David I hope you like this scientific tongue-not-in cheek but stuck to a metal pole explanation.
A very good read is a book called "The Art of Seduction" by Robert Greene & Joost Elffers they also have written 2 other books I own , "The 48 Laws of Power (with Joost Elffers) & The 33 Strategies of War". The reason for the first book is it talks about how Casanova would captivate women. The book is not just about him and the seduction not just about romance, but how successful people have used strategies to lure people, weather it be love, politics, or cons.
Wkipedia: The Art Of Seduction is a book by Robert Greene and Joost Elffers which, while examining social power much like their book The 48 Laws of Power, does so through the lens of seduction.
Like The 48 Laws of Power, this book also takes an amoral look at how to manipulate social situations. Greene supports and illustrates his seductive archetypes through historical and celebrity figures such as Andy Warhol, Cleopatra, and Cardinal Richelieu
And on a lighter note: http://www.roadkilltshirts.com/?gclid=COeAmoLOprACFQkaQgoduk36YA (http://www.roadkilltshirts.com/?gclid=COeAmoLOprACFQkaQgoduk36YA)
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I am not sure there is always a need to go philandering....maybe it's Oxytocin related..........
Entropy.....the race to chaos......covered very well in "The Fabric of the Cosmos by Brian Greene"
I will check out those other books you mention...knowlege is power ;D ;D ;D
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ps.....
Willy
Are you SURE you did not get another IP Address and it's really you in the backgraound being mischievious !!!!!!
I could believe that ;D ;D ;D
To high brow for me David. I was having problems following the conversations. Plus the one pointer to not being me was that there was no anti american comments featured. LOL
Willy
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My observation, besides Mr Z being immature reminded me of another non-colorful (or non-colourful) ex-member rascal named Pink.
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Her new business has her dealing mainly with ladies, but some men have expressed interest in her music teaching. But if an unmarried or even married male friend/student/ or teacher keeps asking her out for a dinner (just the two of them)..... comes to a point were good weather comments need an umbrella.
Rhon
No way could I disagree with this situation.
If my wife was asked to dinner by a male friend, I would expect that she sought my endorsement BEFORE the event. But my point is that for her to go to dinner (or some such other one-on-one meeting) without my knowlege would be getting a bit close to the bone for my liking.
However...if she DID go out with another Man in secret I personally, repeat personally would consider our marriage at serious risk when I finally found out.
If, for instance , your wife discussed with you that she wanted to meet a prospective music client for dinner because it could be good for her Businesss, then maybe you would look at it in a different light ?????
If my wife told me shewas going to dinner with a male friend...just for the fun of it...I would likely explode !!!!! as I am sure most husbands would...rightly so.
There must be a boundary as you say...to have male friends as partof an overall social circle does not seem bad to me, to go into private one-on-one situations with other Men...seems VERY bad to me.
What got up my nose was the sweeping statement from a first time poster that the marriage under discussion by Pineau was in trouble because the wife had male friends...even though we dont know if the husband was an adulterer, a wife beater or just an opportunist looking for a way to hang on to his wife's home for himself !!!!
Ron, I confess to enduring some good weather, well for the past couple of years. But if I was experiencing some of the hypothetical situations you and David have presented, of course, we would be in the middle of a typhoon. Except that a man keeping asking my wife out for dinner (candlelit or otherwise) should not necessarily reflect badly on my wife's moral fibre. I would expect her to be honest enough to mention it, candid enough to joke about it and gently tease me with it, loyal enough to dismiss it, reflective enough to engage in a reaffirmation of what we mean to each other. I would be surprised if my wife doesn't already know it's not kosher to have assignations with men, so I know she is keen to police herself in that department. In fact, I try and encourage her to socialise more. But if I have to edit the lifestyle of someone who already edits herself, I think the marriage would have begun its descent down a slippery slope. I don't worry about what she does when she is not with me. I focus my worry on whether she is all right, safe, healthy, happy and eating enough.
"Don't know much about zeros and degrees,
Don't know what a slide rule is for,
But I do know that I love you,
And I know that if you love me too,
What a Wonderful World it would be."
There must be boundaries, as you and David have said, but who sets them? With a child, they need their parents to set boundaries to educate them in responsibility and moral guidance until such time as they are mature enough to take responsibility for themselves. But adults? Some adults never grow up, but I still don't believe we have the right to police our spouses, even if they have indulged in irresponsible childish actions. I consider that my wife and I are responsible adults, who do not make excuses for our transgressions, but face up to them. I encourage my wife to make more friends. My wife encourages me to play more badminton (with single men, single women, usually playing doubles, haha). She says, 'Have fun. You like it. Do it', and sometimes I wish I stayed at home and spent some more precious weekend time with my wife.
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Whew!!!!! All the fun stuff happens when I am sleeping. :'(
But Rhon you deleted all the good stuff before I could read it!!! Unfair!!!!! ;D
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Well let this be a lesson to you Shaun...don't go to sleep!
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Yes I felt once again that I was refeering a teen soccer (football for the rest of the world) match. Tough to try to be fair when people keep yelling FOWL , as I like to keep the game flowing and try to DUCK handing out any RED Cards that would send a player of the pitch. With the Euro's (not the currency to you Americans) soon starting.... all I can say is Hup Holland Hup.
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Don't change the subject Rhon. You know we never stay on topic.
Gerry thanks for starting this thread. It has been a lot of fun even though it has been way off topic.
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not really off tpoic. it is my gripe box. it not very informativ. just a place to vent. it has been a hetic few days for me. i had to replace my passport and get a new chinese visa. right now i am in a hotel next door to the government building . tomorrow i should be able to take the hotel receipt to prove i am staying in guangzhou. ill explain when i get finished.
I got my new passport in one week from the US embassy., two transaction and one email.
I am trying to get a new Chinese visa at the government offices and have so far been to 5 different counters on three different floors, and spent the night in a hotel to prove I am in Guangzhou. And I still need to go back to get my passport in a week. China is so organized it will make your head spin. No one to help explain the procedure except security guards. And when i did find someone to help she was real bitchy and impatient with me. It was 9:am, I would hate to see here in the afternoon.
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Forget the sexual revolution of the 1960s. It seems the move to monogamy, maybe several million years ago, might have been the biggest revolution in romantic relationships.
According to a new study published in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, non-dominant males, who couldn't compete directly with their alpha or beta counterparts, would woo females by providing for them and their children. The females began preferring the breadwinning male to the bigger or stronger ones, and would become faithful to him.
the rest of the articule comes from this link posted today.
http://ca.shine.yahoo.com/blogs/shine-on/monogamy-explained-why-non-dominant-males-winning-over-194917917.html (http://ca.shine.yahoo.com/blogs/shine-on/monogamy-explained-why-non-dominant-males-winning-over-194917917.html)
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Fiona is gone to the hospital to settle the bill and collect my medicine from the pharmacy. I am staying home because I am still weak from loosing so much blood.
It dawns on me that she and I have NOT been apart for more than five minutes. Seriously, we have been together within reach of other 24 hours a day seven days a week, since January. At the super market, dinner, KTV or just watching a movie we are usually seen holding hands. If I am am chatting with someone on the computer she is laying on the bed behind me knitting a sweater. If she is cooking dinner I am in the kitchen door talking with her. where one of us goes the other follows. She will be back from the hospital in a couple of hours. It's an addiction ....
I AM SUFFERING FROM SEPARATION ANXIETY. crazy really crazy.
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Ok here is the real gripe I have been waiting to post. Fiona just got back from paying the hospital bill. Grand total after 6 days in the hospital 13,380 RMB. And stupid me. I let my travel insurance expire and did not renew it. I know that's is not much compared to a 6 day stay in an American hospital but the rub come from knowing it didn't require 6 days.
In America they would have sent me home with a bag of free medicine samples and prescriptions after 2 days and the cost would have been about the same.
But here there is no money in sending you home with a prescription. They make you lay in a uncomfortable bed , given one IV injection after another day after day and run useless test and procedures to run the bill up. Fiona said that I got about 7 IV bottles a day and at least two were glucose and another saline. THATS 42 bottles of fluids dripped into my arm over 6 days. I was scheduled for two ultrasounds to look at my abdomen. I REFUSED TO TAKE THE SECOND ONE. On average my body will tolerate one day of injections using the same needle before it rejects it and the IV needle has to be moved to a new location. That's 6 holes in my arm that are still swollen and sore. and then there are two draws of blood to be tested every day which left 12 more holes in my other arm. So not much has changed in one years time. the procedures are still barbaric and the tactics to separate you from you money are despicable.
One good thing I can say (and only one ) is that the hospital has closed the decrepit old building where the kept me imprisoned the first time and replaced it with a new clean and more modern building. It is still a circus. No one seem to know what is going on and no one seems to be in charge. The halls are full of people shouting at their cellphones and it sounds like a train station just outside your room. cellphones and Chinese people is another gripe but I should save that for another day.
Bottom line... get travel insurance and keep it current. Avoid Chinese hospitals at all costs.
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I have noticed a lot of this but I have been hesitant to mention it for fear of being attacked. But I am pissed so here goes.
CHINESE ARE RACIST !
I talk to women all over china and when they ask to see my wife some say wow, some say beautiful. She is Chinese !
but ever increasingly when I am talking to someone from northern China they say oh...she is Cantonese. why did you marry a Guangdong girl? do you really like the Guangdong face?
There are 50 some odd ethnic groups in China and I have not seen one that I would outright shun. But the people in the northeast are arrogant and spiteful to anyone that is not "one of their kind" of Chinese.
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In many ways it is only so that they can feel good about themselves.
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CHINESE ARE RACIST !
Now who can argue with that? My Shanghai LaoPo and Family is also guilty of that.. but then again we are in Germany.. here in the US the same.. are we not?
Example: Qing was writing (through Chnlove) to three Male members (all from the US)at the time I send her a Letter for the first time. Well, because I was German, the other's got dumped. Good for me of course, but goes to show.. Chinese do pick by Race/Culture/Ethnic background before deciding who to like/pick.
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There are 50 some odd ethnic groups in China and I have not seen one that I would outright shun. But the people in the northeast are arrogant and spiteful to anyone that is not "one of their kind" of Chinese.
I second this Gerry. We had experience of this from a woman who hails from Inner Mongolia.
But meet someone from your woman's home province and you would think they have run into an missing relative. :o
Plus Arnold you have a very wise woman just goes to show that three yankee boys do not match up to one euro boy.
Willy
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Well I am surprised I still have both my eyes after my post. I need to be careful here because a lot of guys married women from the north east and I don't want to anger them. In fact Liaoning, Shangdong and Harbin have some of the most beautiful women I have ever seen.
My wife is full blood Han. Her linage is from Guangdong. She has the short wide nose. Small almond eyes. She looks like the post card from China ! My ex-wife Jing is also full blood Han but you have to look hard to see that she is Chinese. Her eyes are the give away but she could easily pass for Mexican or European if she wears sunglasses. In fact I have seen people ask her if she is sure she is Chinese. So there you are most everyone is full blood Han but it is facial features and skin tone that seem to bring out the racist in the Chinese. So it seems it is not so much race that they are judging,... it is "the look " it is their definition of "beauty" ...Go figure.
And the men are worse. but not so vocal. Especially those around 50. There is one guy here that seriously hates me because I married one of "their women". I get curious looks from the younger crowd but I have gotten stares (Fiona also) that would burn a hole through you. Sometimes I get fed up with it and just stare back or step over and give his wife the same evil eye that he was giving mine. I know I am going to get punched out some day but maybe I get out of here before that happens.
I grew up in the 50's and 60's and America was pretty racist back then. I am so glad we grew out of it.
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I grew up in the 50's and 60's and America was pretty racist back then. I am so glad we grew out of it.
But have grown out of it or has the many laws just hidden it away? I am sure that US is no different from the UK in that matter.
Willy
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Plus Arnold you have a very wise woman just goes to show that three yankee boys do not match up to one euro boy.
Still angry over the snub at the tea party. ;)
Well... not really a snub... the lack of an invitation to the tea party.
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Plus Arnold you have a very wise woman just goes to show that three yankee boys do not match up to one euro boy.
Still angry over the snub at the tea party. ;)
Well... not really a snub... the lack of an invitation to the tea party.
I am watching the 'Trooping Of The Colour" in London at the moment (on TV that is). Great occasion. Had a great week for the Queens Jubilee Celebrations. Pomp and Glory reigns over the UK. Remember you could have shared in that if you had not made the wrong decision in wanting a Tea Party.
(But then you seem to make a wrong decision every 4 years!!!!)
Willy
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Willy, you are assuming that I always vote for the guy that wins! ;D
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I'm going to gripe about the Australian Immigration Department......
My complaint is that they have no right to be so efficient and customer friendly.
I was d##med annoyed when we sent in the applications for Mings Dad and her Son to come here for 3 weeks holiday in July.
How dare these Beaurocrats complete a visa application in 6 days and raise not one single query or concern about anything !!!!!!!!
It shakes your faith in the irrevocable expectation that this Department must always stuff you around.........
I got ready for a huge fight, and now I have no-one to fight with :-[ :-[ :-[
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Kind of takes the wind out of your sail doesn't it David. ::) :-X
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I detect a bit of sarcasm. But I am amazed if it is true. I wish our USCIS could work so quickly.
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But my info is that the word is out that no one and that is NO ONE f---s with David E on his own turf.
They have not changed policies they have just seen come to their senses.
Willy
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No Willy it is just that here the office workers speak English , but in China gobbledegook , regards Sujuan and Robert .
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But my info is that the word is out that no one and that is NO ONE f---s with David E on his own turf.
They have not changed policies they have just seen come to their senses.
Willy
NEARLY true Willy....no-one messes with me on my own turf....EXCEPT the Australian Taxation Office, the Australian Immigration Dept. and my Chinese wife ;D ;D ;D.......they all freely mess with anyone and usually win !!!
Pineau...it is absolutely true, the visas are in the bag (or in the passport) and flights have been booked today.
I did send a mountain of supporting documentation with the visa application, so maybe they figured I had "been there, done that before"...so better not look for a rubbish excuse to deny the visa !!!
Either which way, they have performed for us...we are all just as amazed as anybody !!!!
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A bit melancholy today. I got a message from Facebook that one of my grand-kids is having a birthday. Well gosh so am I. It dawned on me I am getting too old, too fast.
I recall waiting patiently an eternity to turn 16 so I could get my drivers license. Now I am nearly 4 times that old and birthdays are going by like fence post on the highway. Unless one of my daughters is keeping secrets, I have seventeen grand-kids , ( I think ) . I remember all their faces but no way can I can recite all their names. I used to be able to. I had a list of all their names and used to practice, but I lost the list a few years ago and I am too embarrassed to ask for a replacement. I have grand-kids having kids....god that makes me feel old.
When I look back All I can see is me, working my ass off. Tired cranky and burned out most of the time. I am trying to remember. Where the hell did all those years go. I think they were good. I know they were productive but maybe I really don't want to know. And where did all my money go? Oh I remember, divorce American style. I miss home. I will feel so much better when I get there.
http://youtu.be/4f0p5KqdU9U (http://youtu.be/4f0p5KqdU9U)