China Romance
General Discussion and Useful Links => Ask An Experienced Member => Topic started by: IrishGuy65 on March 18, 2013, 10:35:39 pm
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There may be a thread, or threads, for this topic. I haven't found them yet. So I'm posting here. Please direct me to where I need to go if I missed something.
Anyway, I have been talking to a nice lady in China, and we were talking about the difficulties that could arise in a marriage between our two cultures. I am interested to hear what those of you who are married have gone through. Maybe it can help those of us who may end up with a special Chinese lady of our own. Would be nice to know some possible issues ahead of time :) Also, your stories could be most useful to me, and hopefully, others like me that are currently searching.
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What? and spoil your surprise ! GO FISH.... Its no fun if you have all the answers.
OK, Just joking. but don't get scared.
FOOD.
Driving, navigation and geography .
Religion
Politics
Arrogance (yours)
Language ( not your problem, she speaks better English than you haha)
Shopping,
Money
Partnership. assets, control of money (who is the boss)
frank talks (Chinese women will not back down and will tell you exactly what is on their mind)
Chinese friends. You must find her someone to talk to in her own language. It is so very important for them to be able to express their feeling in their own language.
Find her a place to shop for Chinese food. NOW !
Health care. Health insurance.
Cell phones...internet. Long distance calls. (get Skype for her)
Old friends/boyfriends/ex-husbands. Get used to it. There will be phone calls and messages. Mostly to just check up and to wish well on holidays. Don't freak out.
laugh a lot. it breaks the tension.
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OK, I've discussed all those subjects with her (except for my arrogance. I don't have arrogance, haha!). Anything else?
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Anything else?
Maybe you haven't looked at my Blog yet? It gives you "MY" Story so far, hope that helps. By the way, I did not have any Communication problem.. Qing spoke English very well already.
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Yes, I read your story in this forum and read your blog as well, Arnold. It has been very helpful for me in learning some things about Chinese culture, ladies, and interactions. As Gerry pointed out, the lady I'm talking with does not have any problems with English... she is an English teacher at a university.
Everyone is different, and learning many stories will give everyone more idea of the difficulties in front of us. I know, when I started on this journey, I saw a fairy tale. Advice like Gerry's, and stories like yours, can help people see that it is a lot of work to reach that fairy tale. And also, your story helps us understand how the fairy tale can be worth the work :)
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With all the help Zoot we have here, there should be no reason for anyone to be taken for a ride by Chnlove or other Websites alike. Having all that info/ammo nowadays (something some here did without as there was only the "official" if even that and that turned into a huge pitfall), certainly makes these journey's somewhat easier.. except to deal with the Face-Face/Man vs. Woman as it is everywhere in the world.
It definitely can be worth every Cent/Penny spend on "Right" lady.
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It would take several pages of typing to describe the POSITIVE issues with a Chinese Wife and a Western Husband...... ;D ;D....so for the sake of brevity, here are some of of the VERY few negatives Ming and I have found along the way:
FACE...if anything goes wrong, somebody else is always to blame. To accept being wrong implies a loss of face for her...taboo !!!
MONEY...the lengths she would go (if I allowed her to) to save money is extreme. To comply entirely with her wishes would produce a poor life with a lot in the Bank !!!...money is some sort of God to her.
Racism..Ming shows many signs of being a rabid racist...especially with Black people, Muslims and Japanese in particular.
FOOD...there is no such thing as "leftovers" which can be chucked in the bin after a decent interval in the fridge...you WILL eat it, even if it is glowing green !!!
PETS...My mate Walter the cat ( I have had him for 13 years now) is a particular target of her distaste for spending money to feed pet animals...she is convinced that he should be capable of catching any
food he needs outside in the wild. Actually spending money to feed a cat is seen as criminal !!
Information....If she does not get at least 100 contacts each day on phone, email, skype, QQ etc, she feels deprived. Any information, however blatantly false, improbable or ridiculous that comes from hordes
of freinds, family, aquaintances or other assorted hangers-on is gospel. Facts, figures, proofs from reputable sources can never supersede rubbish from friends !!!
It's all a lot of fun...if you dont take it too seriously......
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David's last paragraph nailed it...any information that comes from a fellow Chinese person, particularly woman, will be taken as gospel. It doesn't matter what facts you have in front of you. While going through the immigration process, I was told that a Chinese "friend"(in other words, a QQ contact) told her something different than the official immigration guide put out by the Canadian Government. When I asked who was she going to believe, this friend, or the Canadian Government, she replied..."my friend". To the best of my knowledge, she had never met this friend outside of QQ.
The language barrier can not be underestimated. Things are great when you are using Google Translate, but when you are finally together, if you can't communicate, you may face some serious issues. Little things will quickly grow into bigger things, if you have no way to discuss the issues.
Culture can be an issue, but if BOTH of you are willing to accept the others culture, and embrace each others cultures, you can have a really great time with each other. I believe it takes both to embrace each others cultural differences, and find a way to incorporate it into your lives. I don't like to see where one has to do all the changes, while the other can continue with their culture, without regard for the other.
Those are my thoughts anyways.
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Some excellent info!
Face I forgot about, and racism is one I didn't consider.
Pets are also a good one, although not a problem for me, as we've already had that discussion.
The China information thing seems like it can be worrisome.
But the culture thing is a big thing, and what I worry about the most. I was hoping to hear some stories about culture clash that could be informative.
With my lady friend, I think we have had very good discussions about difficult issues already, so I don't worry too much about communication.
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PETS...My mate Walter the cat ( I have had him for 13 years now) is a particular target of her distaste for spending money to feed pet animals...she is convinced that he should be capable of catching any
food he needs outside in the wild. Actually spending money to feed a cat is seen as criminal !!
She must like Walter very much as most Chinese would see him as food!!! ;D ;D
Please don't let Walter read this I do not want to upset him. ::)
Willy
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It does not matter what differences you have.It matters how you resolve the differences.First rule different country different customs.Just because you have always done something a certain way.all your life Doesn't mean that it is the right way. As far as your lady is concerned.Keep a open mind.And keep your eyes open.
Rule #2 Maxx's 24 hour rule live it love it learn it. The 24 hour rule is no matter what crazy thing your women tells you.Waite 24 hours till you respond to her.It gives you time to think about it.And post the problem here. it gives are members a chance.To tell you what the correct response should be.Ignore this rule and watch your relationship go up in flames.99% of the time it is a misunderstanding between you and your lady.The other 1% of the time it is a culture or customs issue you and the lady are having.
Rule #3 If it isn't the end of the world.And nobody is going to get hurt or killed.It probably isn't worth arguing about.
Rule #4 if she asks for money.and you have never met the woman in person.drop her like a hot rock and run like hell.
Rule # 5 get out of your head and stop over thinking this thing.You are going to wreck yourself and this woman by over thinking this.
The secret to making this work.Is good communication.Both people having a open mind.and willing to try new things and new ideas.
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Have to agree with what all the others have said.
Communication, work through any issues as they arise and do not go stop until you both come to an understanding and a meeting half way so it is a win win for all.
You will always have different cultural issues, deal with them separately and again make sure both of you are happy and understand what the issue was about in the first place otherwise you will never grow together only grow apart.
One thing that often gets overlooked though is that this is a marriage and like all marriages there is ups and downs. It maybe all too easy to just blame everything on language barriers etc, but to me that is an easy cop out. Just because the lady is from another country does not mean that you both do not have the same desires of a marriage. Just there is some other difficulties in the way, communication, cultural etc. but work through them together.
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Spot on Maxx , 3 plus years and never a misunderstanding yet except when I am late for a pickup , but now she has ajusted pickup times to tell me ha ha , and I am never late , treat your China girl as a lady and she will give back fourfold .
I love the fact that Sujuan when she heads back to China for more than a week or 2 leaves 2 or 3 minders for me to contact and go out with dancing or I might take 4 of the girls out for a Korean dinner , I love this cos I have the guys at my club where we go on a Friday and Saturday night so confused and even some of the women there must think I am a flowerboy ha ha .
Truth is if I looked to play up I am sure word would get back quicker than grease lightening and someone has to look after her business interests from the inside , regards Sujuan and Robert .
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Hmmm, where shall i start ?,
FOOD, everything is chopped in to the smallest pieces, When i buy a steak i expect to have a nice BIG steak on my plate to devour, Not tiny little pieces that would satisfy a mouse.
RACISM, she will point out a black person in the shopping centre and say "LOOK".
DRIVING, now she is taking lessons she knows it all.
FRIENDS, they are always right when it comes to my wife's visa and i am always wrong.
MOBILE PHONE. she can search through my phone and look at recent calls but my fingers will be chopped off if i look at hers, {all in Chinese anyway}.
MONEY, no problems there,she never asks for any because she does not like spending.
LANGUAGE, my wife's English has improved very well but sometimes i have to speak to her in Chinese for her to understand, I get scolded for this and when i tell her the same thing in English she says to speak Chinese as she does not understand ????.
QQ FRIENDS, now my wife is here i am not allowed to talk to them as she thinks all Chinese women are bad and i will leave her for them ???, Don,t even try to explain that you have been to China 6 times in 18 months and spent thousands of dollars to bring her here because she can not comprehend this.
TELEVISION, dont try to concentrate on a new movie as she will insist on the "sub titles" being visible, not only distracting and then she reads them out loud and you loose the plot.
BED, it is not okay for you to stay up late to watch a movie, when she goes to bed you have to go to, You do not have a say if she stays up until 2am to watch Chinese tv???.
SHOPPING, she scrutinises every product, even though all the same, "i dont have x-ray vision for the packaging", but what ever i pick up goes back on the shelf and she spends 5 minutes looking for god knows what ??.
CHINESE SHOPKEEPERS, she will still haggle for the cheapest prices .
ARROGANCE , yes it is always my fault.
PETS, they would be more useful as food and do not spend money on them so they can feed.
CLOTHING, It is not the same as Chinese and when i show her the label, "MADE IN CHINA", she does not believe it.
CULTURE, You can take the woman out of China but you cant take China out of the woman, Isnt this why we love these women ???, I would never try to change her, This is why i looked for a Chinese wife.
FINALLY, We, as most couples, have our ups and downs and i do have to say that it is more difficult than being with a western woman, but i have never been happier, I am greeted at the door with a smile and a kiss and dinner is never far behind, My children are happier and my son loves most of the cooking and has a laugh most days when she gets words muddled up, Photograph instead of breakfast, penis instead of PEANUTS, haha, Eventhough we have our differences i would not trade her for the world, John .
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I told you Zoot. don't get scared.
I have something else to say about this. It seems to me with both Jing and Fiona I had to put a lot of time and effort that I would not have need if the lady was from America. But by doing so you put a lot more energy into the marriage. A lot more connection and interaction than what is normal. In the beginning you are spending nearly all your time together interacting and explaining and just trying to communicate. I think it adds a lot to the marriage and strengthens the bonds.
This is a negative thread because that is what you asked for but let me tell you that along with all the problems discussed come some perks and benefits that you can only dream about if married to a western woman. You can find a lot mentioned in other threads hear but the very best are kept secret and we leave to your imagination. ;D
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I think it adds a lot to the marriage and strengthens the bonds.
You're right Gerry! I not only think it does, I personally know it does! Writing (EMF's or whatever) for months truthfully of course, starts to build a foundation/bond before you even step on the Plane to meet. I see Zoot and his Lady are doing just that right now and it will benefit later if it comes to marriage. Here locally, me meet somebody.. jump into bed and both think we are in love and have some more the same for a while.. then get married. Now, where is there any form of foundation here? This is why we have so many divorces here, People don't spend enough time getting to know each others fault's/character's/habit's. So as easy it is to split, why fight for anything.. just leave and find a new.
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She must like Walter very much as most Chinese would see him as food!!! ;D ;D
Please don't let Walter read this I do not want to upset him. ::)
Willy
Yes, you are right Willy....she has remarked in the past that Walter could feed US for a week !!!
(BTW, Walter is an American cat, a Maine Coon Cat, they are the largest domestic breed and he weighs in at 20 lbs and is about 5 feet from nose to tail !!)
I told her that if she wants to eat Walter, she has got to catch him first...and if you could see the size of his teeth and claws you would realise (as she did) that it would need a sewing machine to put her back together if she tried it !!!
However...back to Zoot's original question about culture differences.....
Zoot,
There wont be cultural differences...there will be a cultural CHASM a mile wide between you and a Chinese woman and this you have to accept and deal with. You cant possibly understand what she has been through in her previous life in China.
I speak here about a mature Chinese woman, because I think things are slowly changing for the younger set now. My wife is typical in that she has lived in a World that has been male-centric and male dominated for at least the past 3000 years
Most of us here are older Men and we have married women in or around their 40.s and who have been married before and who likely have had a child.
These Women have had to accept that husband is the boss, the Master and has all the aces. She has been forced culturally to work in a job...long and hard, has been required to do all the cooking, houswork etc for husband, family and likely his parents too. Her main job has been to provide a Son...to ensure the family will be looked after in the future.
She has had no safety net of social, financial or emotional support that has been enshrined in Law for her Western counterparts. Her husband has likely and openly had one or several mistresses that he lavished attention (and money) on. She can be discarded at a moments notice with no financial settlement (My wife's ex had all the assets in his Mother's name so she could not get a penny). Emotionally, she has lived in a vacuum, Chinese husbands in general dont show affection to wives...only to mistresses !!!
If she has a daughter, she will likely be forced to accept custody and bring up the child alone with no help from him. If she has a son, it is likely that the husband will take him. She has no say in the matter.
All of this has produced one very tough woman...many western women would cave in totally under the cultural stresses and strains that she has had to live with all her life.
You have no comprehension of how hard she has done stuff...dont even try.
But when she marries a Western man she will expect him to be strong, competant, but above all show her another side of a relationship which is warm and loving. She is not used to this and needs time to get to trust you and your intentions. If she percieves you as weak...watch out , she will shut you off and get on with running her life.
Give this woman respect, face and security and she will astound you with the care and attention she gives you...willingly.
There has been lots of advice here about not letting this get into your head, its not life-threatening, you WILL have a mountain of cultural difference with her, it's inevitable. But it is also an opportunity to meet in the middle and develop your own brand of cross-culture marriage.
It's the little day-to-day things that can be managed, as many of us have written about. I dont think there is a magic bullet to remove all the cultural differences, and for me personally, I really love the difference...after all, I chose to do this, I (and the other guys here) could have chosen the conventional route and married another Western harridan !!!!.......but we got smart ;D ;D ;D
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Thanks again, everyone.
Yes, we have been talking for about 6 weeks now. We talk at least once a day, often twice a day. We video chat a few times a week. We talk a LOT, and discuss many things. I also feel this is great that we talk so often. I will be leaving July 12 and will be there for 2 weeks. This gives us plenty of time to continue to talk and get to know each other, and each culture, better before then. Again, the one thing I believe we already have is a strong line of communication about things. And we've both been married before. This was important to me, because I wanted to find someone that has had that experience before. I'm 47 and she's 45, so we've been around the block a little bit ;)
As far as the rest, there is a lot of great info here. I hope this thread sticks around for future newbies.
One last note, I had two Maine Coon sisters. They lived out their lives, but they were both over 20 pounds easily. They are the most awesome pets, though.
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David E has hit the nail right on the head. That is an experienced man who is able to put into words exactly what we have all found.
Words alone cannot describe the pain my wife went through in the past. A woman who loves children so much, having hers taken from her by an errant husband when the youngest was 7 months and the eldest 5.
But this weekend is a special as all three of her children will be together celebrating her 50th birthday. Along with 20 or more other guests who are gathering here for lunch before going of to dinner in the evening.
I think it will be a hectic and very noisy time with two dozen Chinese in one apartment.
Am I concerned, never, I say 'Bring It On'. I am looking forward to it just to see my wife's joy at having all her children in in one place together with her. This will be the first time this has happened since her ex took all three from her some 18 years ago and replaced her with another women.
Willy
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Willy, We wish your wife a very happy upcoming birthday, MinYing celebrated her birthday here last month and had a little cry as my children came to celebrate it with her and brought a cake, Never before in her life has anyone done this for her, She had a wonderful day ;D