China Romance
General Discussion and Useful Links => Newbies Corner => Topic started by: brett on August 19, 2009, 08:33:24 am
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Hi all,
I've got to the half a dozen EMF's stage with a lovely girl I'm interested in and things are looking :heart: lol.
Although her letters are much more personalised than the rather standard replies I've got from other ladies, there seem to be quite a few inconsistencies. Like I mentioned I like travelling a couple of times, then in her latest letter she asks me if I like travelling and to send her some pictures of my travels.
Does anyone else experience similar things, or is it likely to be translation errors etc.? I guess it could just be the way they word things as well, e.g. "do you like travelling?", even when they know full well that you do.
Anyway, I sent her a picture of one of the Pandas I saw when I went to Hong Kong's Ocean Park, that ought to melt her heart :blush:.
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Mike, I got exactly the same type of error on one of my messages. Our translator ceased to exist too afterwards. Body's probably floating in a river somewhere. lol. Just kidding.
Brett, it can be especially true in a bigger agency where they employ multiple translators. One may not know what was said in previous letters and could get things a bit confused. Positivity and trust through misunderstandings will go a long way toward helping any relationship but especially this type.
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Mike , Neil this has also happened to me about someone else's name being used...
I got an apology from the translator, and the agency bosses, they were very apologetic and Keren was sooo angry and upset about this because it nearly ended us...The 'excuse' I got from them including Keren was, that the translators have about ten girls to cover for, so there are many letters they have to reply too etc
The thing I found funny about the response I got from the agency boss was, he used the WRONG name to me as well hehe He called me Chip lol
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brett, simple misunderstanding ...... it could be she knows you like traveling ... because you told her in previous letters, but she wants more information .... so instead of staying ...
"I understand you like to travel, tell me more about that, and can you show me some pictures ...."
the translator tells you
"Do you like travelling? please send me some pictures?"
to the translator both are the same thing .... but to you ... the second is frustrating, and makes you fell you were not heard in previous letters... it only gets worse if you reply in a negative way, because of the frustration, and then the Lady thinks she did something wrong by showing interest in you.... and then it upsets her also because of the language and cultural barriers, there can be lots of problems that are artificial, like this example.... you have to assume the lady is being very sincere, and honest, and curious, and is interested in you, and paying attention
Mike:)
Well said and very true David !
ahhh ... Mike ha-ha sorry. Hope I don't loose my Job over this error ?:s
Seems to happen to all of us one time or another .
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Brett, Mike is right and you can't take it as a negative. There's a good chance the translator isn't to well versed in the english language translation. Some words don't work well when being translated so you have to give them a little slack. That "do you like travelling?" could have easily have been "SO you like traveling?"
There were times (still) that I would say something and nothing is mentioned in the next letter but in the following letter it would be? I asked a few questions and figured what was going on. My lady would get my letter and send a reply. Later when she got to read the letter she would then give answers or comment on that letter. So it seemed she was always one letter behind. It's not always done for every letter but again you have to give them some slack in giving answers.
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Thanks guys.
Yes some of the answers I find a bit confusing but I am gradually teasing more information out of her. Her agency is in a different city as well so perhaps there are more communication problems as she can't visit them in person.
Fortunately she seems quite computer literate and has a computer at home and work so we might try some direct communication a bit further down the line :icon_cheesygrin:.
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During my recent visit to China, I was with a girl I visited there. We started talking about the first admiration letter she sent me. It turns out that she actually never sent an admiration letter to me so we thought that we read it together back in the hotel. When I logged on to the Chnlove website, we found a long EFM letter sent in her name asking me why i didn't write to her for so long. We had such a laugh about it.
This just shows the authenticity of many of these EMF letters, which are not worth the time you spend reading them. It would be foolish or naive for anyone to build their hopes and dreams solely on EMF letters alone.
I am glad many of us on this brotherhood have come to this conclusion now:icon_cheesygrin:
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Guys...your opinion please !
I have exchanged several EMF's with a woman who interests me a lot....the attraction seems to be mutual too....her letters are warm and chatty, filled with lots of information !!!
I am prepared for some inconsistencies in EMF's for all the reasons talked about.....but
Here are 2 sentences from ONE letter...received yesterday...
"We have another nice sunny day here, it's warm."....said early in the letter
"We have a rainy day today, and it's cold. My son will come by and we may go out to have lunch together"...said later in the same letter
Now I dont get at all hung up on whether its hot, cold or medium where she is, but the red flag here for me is....did she actually write this letter ??? Is this yet another Translator scam ??....Translator too busy or incompetant to get on the ball and not make stupid errors.
I really like this woman...or should I say I really like the letters I got from somebody !!!!!........what to do ???
DavidE
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David E.
Could be as simple as my lady. It takes her two days to write a letter, so the weather could have changed from one day to the next. Or since my lady handwrites her letter, and then faxes it to another city, the weather could have changed. Over all, I try and not get to hung up on the small details, what I look for is overall consistency. Even with a recent change in translators, still happy here.
I have to say that she has opened up with the questions and ideas about the future. Her latest letter dropped a bombshell. Now mind you we have never professed our love, we have just been slowely getting to know one another. So she said, what do you think about us living half a year in China and the other half in America. That way neither one of us will get to homesick.
Going to have to stop the bus here, we need to wait for these questions after we meet and decide if we are a match made in cyber space.
buzz
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Thanks Mike
Yes, I know you are right...until I go to meet her, I never can be sure of much !!
Dont forget, before I joined here I went 5 times to China, and got zapped 5 times !! and I am trying to make number 6 count for something :icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:
So I will just keep writing and hope to get to QQ stage sooner or later which will at least demonstrate that she actually exists !
Buzz
I get daily letters from her, so it is not the passage of time that drives this anomaly !...I just hope the translator was half asleep, or hungover and got slack !!
Cheers
DavidE
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We have all learned that sometimes the translator injects things into the woman's EMF letter if she thinks it will help the relationship along. Also as Scottish Rob has already said, the translators have several women that they are doing work for at the same time. So I understand how a wrong name can be used. I would only be worried about a wrong name if it was used during a live video chat! Hehehe. Anna told me a funny story about when she was forced to use the translator at her previous agency. Anna is a University level English teacher so she really has no need to use a translater at all. I would bet she could work as a translator (and be a very good one) at any agency. She became concerned when she received a reply from a man she was writing to and in his letter he said I love you too! In her mind this meant that I love you had been placed in her last letter to this man. She had never written I love you herself so she became angry that the translator had added this to her letter. She later confirmed this when she called the agency to complain. The translator had injected the I love you for her own good and to supposedly help move her relationship along. So I really think it is very important for all the brothers to move to an additional form of communication as soon as possible so you know that you are in direct contact with the lady. Anna and I use Skype video chat almost everyday and I can't recommend it enough!:heart:
Big Dave
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I don't think it is always a matter of dishonesty.
I had an interesting experience with my ex-woman from Zhuhai, when I was having dinner with her and her good friend, the translator. This is the translator who has been translating our emf mails for the past year.
The translator was meant to be there to translate, but she was as much a participant as my ex-woman and me.
For example, my woman would speak to me in Chinese for about five minutes. Then I would get a one or two sentence "translation" summarising what had been said. At other times, there was a short Chinese sentence, then I would get a long "translation". There were other times I would say something and the translator just ignored what I attempted to say to my ex-woman, and then other times they just sat and had a discussion together . . . *laughs*
It didn't seem to bother my ex-woman at all, the way this discussion was taking place, so I didn't mind either.
It was just interesting to see how it took place in real time. It gave me some useful insight into the differences in the way westerners want translators to act and the way they act in practice. It seems to me that Chinese translators see themselves more as "facilitators" than some kind of improved translation "machine" (which is the way I think most of us would prefer them to act, at least most of the time).
I think that even when things are added to the letters to the translators, it is done to help the relationship along. Of course, for most of us, we don't want that kind of help, we would prefer to know things as they really are, however discouraging that might be.
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If something like your example was happening I would be suspicious. A few sentences and all you got were a couple of words? I have talked with people that have interpreted for another. They glide them through it but not telling them what was said.
Here's an example. On one of my old jobs, the boss use to give christmas bonuses out. He was an older man really a nice guy. He liked to tell jokes. Some of the workers didn't speak english so we had translators to help them. So Carlos (the translator) and the worker came out of the office laughing. I asked what happen? Carlos tells me the old man told a joke and what happen. Carlos told the worker, he's going to tell a joke I'll tell you when to laugh. The boss said his joke and Carlos said OK Laugh.
The other part of this is the lady didn't bother to learn english after a year?
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Another thing about translation and why adding certain things might be justified. I speak 3 languages fluently (well my accent in English is going down the hill for lack of practice) and did my share of translations trying to make some money while in University. Sometimes you can't get the tone or the real intent across in the translation, especially when you stick precisely to what is being said in the original language, so adding some bits here and there can make sense. However, I don't think that most of the agency translators are really good enough to get the tone/intent we mean, and I'd be curious to get a reverse translation by another translator back, just for the laugh. The same thing applies the other way around too I think. So when a lady writes to us in a tender romantic tone without using any love words, I think the translator's only choice is to add some love, dear, sweet etc stuff, and of course we don't like that, and the lady never wrote that :D
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Hello all, I'm new here although I have been reading various posts and threads for some while and trying to understand the site's procedures and ethos. Firstly, I have to say that I find the contributions brilliant, fascinating and incredibly enlightening - in fact I feel that I already know many of you from the many things you have written! I really don't know what I would have done without all the incredibly good advice you have provided for me, despite you even not knowing you were doing so. But I suppose that's the underlying value and gift of this site. Secondly, I have been a registered member of Chnlove since late March of this year and, although I don't know if this is the right place to do so, I would be grateful if I could share my experience with you thus far - and hopefully draw on the multitude of experienced advice that is available here.
I don't know how I stumbled on to Chnlove, I was surfing and it popped up in my browser and I found myself looking at thousands of profiles of beautiful Chinese women; and then suddenly I found myself looking at the most beautiful woman I had ever seen in my life (I know that 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder' but this was MY dream of perfection) so I sent her a cupid note and was astonished to immediately receive her reply saying that she was very intersted in me and asking me to tell her my story. I had never been on a dating website before and as I said earlier, I'm new here; I was also new to Chnlove. But from much of what I've read here I'm beginning to think I received 'her letter' from a translator, agency individual, whoever.
For a variety of reasons, which are too long to relate here, I did not actually get round to buying credits and replying until 1st September and, again, to my surprise, she replied within hours. To cut a long story short: I did as she had previously asked and told her my story, using all my allowed 6000 characters (actually I've discovered that spaces are counted as characters so I usually only get approx 4500 characters not the 6000 stated by Chnlove and I've had a couple of exchanges with Chnlove Customer Services about that and had the expected 'smoke and mirrors' response). I also asked her a few simple questions to get communication flowing like "Do you have brothers or sisters?", "Do you still live at home with your parents?", "What type of music do you like?" The reply I received was very short, did not mention anything I had written about (some of which, someone who was "very intersted in you" would certainly have responded to) and was briefly and mainly about hotpots and mountains. There was also mention of trust, honesty, being straight and direct and simple relationship is perfect. Oh, and a gleam of hope: "I am sure God bring us here to meet." There were no replies to any of my questions and my initial reaction (before I had even read the posts here) was that she hadn't seen my letter or had it properly translated to her. So in my next reply I voiced my concerns with her and put in a footnote to the translator to please make sure that my letter was properly and fully translated to Fei and that she received it.
This seemed to have a spell-binding effect as the reply was long, my simple questions were answered, there were profuse apologies and I was assured by my lady that the translator told her every word in my letter. She also asked me to trust her and believe that she did not "cheat" me, which I had not even implied in my letter. There were also some lovely words: "You have brought so much good cheer and deep love into my life"; "Every letter you send to me makes my heart melt" etc. I was sooo happy, I was flying! So, I replied in a similar vein that that was how she made me feel too etc - only to receive a reply hours later that began "so long time I no receive your letter" and which was business-like, short and devoid of any affectionate terms. She also told me for the first time that she can not speak or read English but I'm ok with that because I can not speak or read Chinese. To be fair, there were some nice pleasantries like asking me to teach her English song one day and she cooking spicy food for me when we get together but it was light years from the previous letter.
Fast forward and coming to this site: I now realize that "deep love into my life" and "make my heart melt" were translator's fluff and I'm very annoyed and feel a bit of a fool. Fortunately, I have read the 24 hour rule during my clicking around here and thank God I had because I think I may have jumped in and ruined everything. Sorry if this is so long- winded but there is a point to it all, which I'm about to get to (what was that? Hooray? Damn Cheek!), and at least you will know my story and I won't have to rehearse it in bits and pieces again.
The point is, I desperately need some good advice from you Brothers who have a wealth of experience. I really like this woman, head over heels in fact, and I do not want to ruin things with a wrong reply. So far we have exchanged 5 EMF's each. She has told me that she was immediately attracted to my profile, that God brought us to meet, that we have a bright future together and that she really cherishes this chance ( among many other uplifting and hope-giving words). She also immediately sent me 'ordinary 'photos' of herself when I gently asked if she would. However, I'm beginning to have some doubts; not about how I feel but about how she really feels, or if many, or even any, of the words and thoughts I cling to are really hers or are translator embellishments and inventions. There are constant repetitions in all her letters about trust, honesty, simple girl who likes a simple life, simple relationship is perfect etc, and I seem to recall something about that in a thread here that set alarm bells ringing. Also, I'm the type of person who accepts all of those values as paramount principles for a relationship and then moves on to building the relationship.
But I now have a big problem: after her last but one letter when she (or the translator) wrote all those affectionate words, profuse apolgies and "really cherish this chance", I received an update from Chnlove of my matches (I had forgotten to stop this although I have hidden my profile as a sign of my commitment to Fei) and her refreshed profile was among them! I've read a lot about this subject in various posts, particularly the invaluable contributions of Vince and Proteus, and the overall conclusion seems to be that the lady virtually has the final say about whether her profile is refreshed or not, indeed, she can request that it is. In this respect, Chnlove detail this as the lady showing that she is active and available and expecting Admirer Mails. I am about to write to my lady again and feel that I have to mention what has occurred, albeit gently! In fact I am tempted to plagiarize Mike's (MPO 474) "One last thing" way of dealing with it without using his "so please forgive me if I have intruded" conclusion, because I couldn't bear the thought of her accepting and my losing her.
Another thing that bothers me is that she has refreshed several times and each time her 'photos have become sexier and more heavily photoshopped, although I think that her 'ordinary', or outside pictures as she calls them, are utterly beautiful - just as when I first saw her profile. And, although I accepts Vince's used car scenario on this, Chnlove appear to have metamorphosed an utterly beautiful woman into a sex siren. What do I make of this?
I know it's only early days and we have only exchanged 5 EMF's each. I haven't asked for any of her contact details or given her any of mine, email etc, and I doubt that it would be much good as neither of us speak each other's language so I can not arrange any direct contact. Also, I wonder if it isn't too early for that anyway. But I do know that I really, really like this woman and will do anything to make our relationship work and last, but it has to be a mutual desire. I don't know anything about Chinese women and their cultural differences; what delights and impresses them and what offends and repulses them, but I'm trying to learn from this site. Many of you Brothers are extremely experienced in these matters - so please HELP!
There you have it, and at least you won't have to put up with that again. Next posts will be succinct and from the hip and not outpourings from the heart. But please, I would really welcome any help you can give me to resolve this dillemna. Thank you!!!
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Hi Johnboy,
Welcome fellow UK brother! I think you'll find that the ladies are a bit skeptical about their admirers until you can take things to the next level and prove you are serious about things. They have a lot of timewasters to contend with.
Unfortunately though I'm sure a lot of relationships are ended by bad translators. Bear in mind though that ladies without computers will probably have to dictate their response by phone (unless they can visit the agency every day).
A good way to start is telling her what you want out of life, and asking her what she wants. Make sure she wants to live in the UK if that is what you want. Also good icebreakers are asking about her hobbies (although most of them like the same things!). Tell her about your family as well.
Later ask her if her parents are OK with the relationship (more relevant if she is young and not previously married).
Getting natural photos is a good step. You want to try and get to the stage when she is comfortable about sending you her address (without you having to pay to access it), or she wants to talk to you on MSN/QQ/Skype. Seeing her on webcam and hearing her voice is important.
What sort of age range is your lady? The younger girls are more computer literate and often have digital cameras. But it sometimes depends on what kind of job they do.
Also make it clear that you would like to visit her.
Try to keep your letters fairly short as well. I know it costs money, but it's a drop in the ocean compared to going to China and bringing back a lady! This is expensive business, that's for sure.
As to the photos, my lady's photos weren't photoshopped much apart from some brightening to make her skin look lighter.
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Hi John , whilst you originally had a problem , re the 4500 approx letters , Vince has answered this elsewhere . Unless your lady can access the emf you send easily once they are translated , you will find at that large number of words , that things can get lost in the translation and , if you drown out the pertinent facts by embellishments , more confusion will happen , you have the opportunity to also forward to her everyday photo's of you , along with asking that she likes them etc,just keep the information flowing in a gentle manner and at the end of each emf ask 4 - 6 actual questions and if not answered in the next couple of emf's ask again .
When you get through to about 10 emf's max ask for a video - cam session that way you can ensure that she is real , regards Robert .
ps . its nice to see our ex Australian Prime Minister honouring us with his presence , ha ha
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I forgot to add - another thing you should do is try to learn Chinese sentence structure and play around with the Google translation tool. You will then begin to learn that a lot of English words can be dropped from your sentences to make translation easier. I'm still a novice at this but I think words such as "but" can cause a lot of confusion, even for the translators. I am beginning to understand what a difficult language English is, with the numerous ways to say the same thing. Also there is a lot of vagueness built into the language, e.g. "probably", "might", "perhaps" - it's a wonder our ladies figure out our true intentions at all :dodgy:.
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Hi Brett,
Thanks for the welcome and thanks very much for your views and advice, really very helpful - just what I was hoping for.
Yes, I get the distinct impression that my lady is probing to see if I'm really serious about things and although it's early dayd I believe she knows I am but wants to find out how much I am.
I'm sure you gathered that the gist of my posting was actually about translator interference, incompetence, perhaps even scamming and I need to sort that out quickly, so any advice in that area would be gratefully received. As for a home computer, I don't yet now if she has one, in fact that's part of the problem, I don't know that much about her at all yet; that's partly why I write the long letters - to encourage her to communicate, Communication is something she stresses a lot in her short letters, which is great for me, but she isn't doing a lot of it yet. Anyway, even if she does have a computer at home I don't think we can communicate that way yet as she told me in her last letter that she can not speak or write English; and I can not do either in Chinese - but I'm dtermined to learn!
I told her about my family in my very first letter, lots of things that you would have thought she would reply to in one way or another, particularly if she is a sensitive or caring person, but not a word came back on that, which is why I suspect she didn't get my letter or the full meaning of it and why I think I was 'translatorised'. But good one, I haven't told her what I want out of life or asked what she wants out of life so I'll do that (Wow! that will be a long letter, I'll just have to do charactersandnospaces). I've asked about hobbies but had a bland reply, still I'm working on that. Yes, I think I will leave the parent consent thing 'til later as I don't want her thinking I'm pushing things and I'll just let that take it's own course. Mind you, I'm normally ok with parents, in fact they seem to take to me more than the girlfriends.........hmmmm
I was really thrilled when she sent me her natural 'photos firstly because she has incredible natural beauty and secondly because I was becoming concerned about Chnlove photoshopping her out of existence and sexing her up; I do not like that sort of thing. But yes, that to me was a defining moment - I asked very gently and she sent them within hours. None of the quibbling or excuses that I've read about some ladies in posts here. That's the way I'm trying to take it Brett, very gently, no demands or heavy stuff. In fact I somehow get the impression that she may previously have been in a bad relationship. I don't know, but she wrote in her profile that she hoped her partner "don't like drinking" and that would seem to identify that she's had a problem with that sort of thing. Again, I don't know but you don't write something like that for no reason. Anyway, whatever, I'm taking it very gently because that's the way I am.
Same with MSN/QQ/Skype, I'll let that come naturally and not let her feel she's being pushed down that route.
She is 26 years old Brett, and seems very mature, and tells me that she works as an assistant to the general manager of an insurance company. I gently asked her if she could tell me something about her work, to get the communication going and she wrote a little bit about it. I presume with a job like that that she would have to be computer literate, but probably not in English.
I think I will have to build the relationship a bit more before I tell her that I would like to visit her, again, because I don't want her to feel I'm pushing things after 5 EMF's each! Actually, she has given me a ray of hope on this one as she asked in her last letter if I could teach her English songs "when we met up", and said she would like to cook spicy food for me (yes please!) and I could cook Western food for her - I love cooking! So, yep, there are some promising signs building up slowly.
Try to keep my letters short? Brett, does the sun come up at night? That's a really tough one.
Another piece of advice I would like is how often I should write to her? I've been writing about once a week mainly because of work pressures but also because I don't get the impression that she wants me to write more often.
Then there's her profile refresh 2 days after she sent me a long affectionate letter ending with "I cherish this chance" ie she and I building a relationship. But maybe that too was the translator? In any event, I saw her profile refresh as meaning that she wasn't that sure about me being the right one and ( I hope this doesn't sound awful) she was putting herself 'back on the market'. What would be your opinion/thoughts about that?
Whoops! I've got to dash. Big thanks Brett
Johnboy
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John,
I think I would be wary of a lady who doesn't put in that much effort. I exchanged a couple of EMFs with a few ladies. I ditched the ones that got too sexual, the ones who took too long to answer, and the ones who didn't really send good replies to what I'd been asking about. My eventual choice of lady was streets ahead of everybody else - she took time to answer my messages personally even though she works incredibly long hours.
I wrote to my lady every weekday (the translator didn't work weekends). Fortunately one of my careers has been as a writer, so I can knock out letters in no time at all. But after about 10 letters we ditched them except for important stuff and just talked on MSN and Skype. This has gone very well provided I obey my important rule of not talking about important stuff on MSN!
I would be concerned about the profile refresh though, although maybe it's just the agency having a spring clean. I think they do put different photos up according to the seasons.
You have quite a big age gap there so that may be an issue. Also because she's so young she might be holding out as long as she can. Or maybe she's one of those women who are looking for Mr 100% - my sister knows loads of women like that, and they're still single and in their 40's.
At the end of the day you really need to fall in love with somebody's personality. Some Chinese women (or maybe women from any country?) can be very cold and not have much in the way of personality. I've had some incredibly fun chats with my lady on MSN though. This is important as looks won't last forever, but personality will.
As for hobbies - well China is still developing and some of these ladies work extremely long hours. But you can be pretty certain that travelling, singing, dancing, exercising or cooking will be on their list!
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Hi Mike
Thanks for the welcome. And thanks for all your wise and reassuring words. I certainly needed that as I mistakenly thought that the ladies were fully aware of the provocative nature of their 'photos and perhaps played a willing role in them. I certainly did not know that they did not even see them on Chnlove's site; don't they have the prerogative of vet and veto? Are their 'photos not displayed in their own agencies? My lady must surely have seen some of her 'alluring' and 'suggestive' poses because she attached them to me with her 'photos - or was that the **** translator again? That was one of the things that had my mind racing! Thank God that those who have seen it all and done it all are here to caution and guide those who have not. Thank you Mike. Mind you, fortunately, I had also read the 24 hour rule, and that held me back from putting my foot in when I was about too.
I must confess that I'm still not completely sure about the profile resfresh or its implications. Before I finally managed to write my first letter ( and was checking to see if she was still there at every opportunity, I noted that her profile was refreshed at least once every month. And I find that very hard to understand as she really is a very beautiful lady with a stunning figure. However, that was not the only thing that captivated me (I'm not looking for 'arm-candy', I'm seeking my soul mate); she also had this exquisite sincerity about her that I really can not explain. Anyway, I shall try to find answers to the profile refreshing vexation with some very gentle, perhaps even disingenuous, probing in my next letter. But for me, with no disrespect for your wise and kind words, it's still a hurdle to overcome. but I shall be very gentle in jumping over it.
I am really very taken with your advice about focusing on the 'meat' of the letters and concentrating on the thigs I know (as much as I'm able to know) that came from her to build our relationship; and I wii definitely be ignoring the fluff. I had not even thought about that so BIG thanks - and I shall take your advice on this to heart.
Yes, I entirely agree with you, 5 letters is just a start, and I have always viewed it from that perspective. I like things to be founded on mutual trust, respect and sincerity.
Many, many thanks Mike, it's a pleasure to know you. And I wish you happiness on your journey and adventure too.
John
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John
Most of us here who began this "Journey" at some point in time got heavily confused by all the mixed messages coming from the Women...the translator fluff, the refresh syndrome, the long vs short replies to our LONG letters, photoshopping or not......etc, etc, etc.......I am sure you know the drill by now !!
So easy under these variables to get into "analysis paralysis" ...which usually is a one way track to utter confusion:icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:
There is very little real choice...you go along for the ride and slowly devlop a true knowlege and understanding of the woman to whom you write. Over time, you can get past the EMF stage and onto direct communication via web-cam..often resisted at first....remember, these women are bombarded with time wasters and "players"...they have just as much trouble as we do in deciding who is serious and who just wants a cheap thrill . !!!.
I am personally sure that the first few (5 to 10 ??) EMF replies are polite acknowlegements of your correspondence...only after a while will she get the message that you are serious and begin to interact...even so, this will be fraught with inconsistencies from the translator, and if you are writing 4000 words + you may not get the detailed responses to ALL your questions because translators work very hard, with serious deadlines and production targets.
I would only suggest to you, keep your letters a bit shorter, stick with your plan, learn what you can about her...but dont take it all at face value ...yet.
Get on to Web-cam as soon as she is comfortable with that and then you will see a whole new scenario.....and of course, if you let her know you are prepared and willing to come to meet her...well that is real good credibility.
Welcome to the brotherhood...you may not agree or like all you read here...but all of us have varying degrees of real time experience and our motives are always to help each other in any way we can.
And I see that you have already learned the best lesson of all...The Maxx 24 hour rule....Golden !!!!
Cheers and good hunting:icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:
DavidE
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Johnboy...As you are probably aware (or not) that I am going to Qingdao in November. :icon_cheesygrin: My lady and I have been in contact since November of last year and this will be my first and only trip there. Her profile gets refreshed once a month too.:@ However, any and all cupids or letters sent to her are not shown to her.:icon_biggrin: Because she has (apparently) told our translator 'she' does not want to know, because she has found the one she wants to be with.:icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin::angel:
We started sending two or more letters a day in the beginning sometimes only one:huh:, but after you get 'speaking properly' two or three emf's a week is sufficient I think.:icon_biggrin:
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Yes Rob, I was aware you were going to Qingdao but couldn't remember when it was because there was so much of interest to follow in your journey post. I tuned in practically every night to catch the next instalment. I hope everything goes brilliantly for you and that you come back the happiest man in the world - well, ok, the UK - but that is only until it's my turn!!!
Seriously, thanks for the tips, especially about the profile refresh and I think I am sensitive enough to sort that one out. At the end of the day I have to respect that it is my lady's decision about what she does or does not do. We shall see, but I now know that the advice I have been given here and Maxx's 24 hour rule will put me in with a racing chance. Hey, you would know all about that wouldn't you hahaha.
Hmmm,,,I think I'll stick with one or two letters a week for now and see how that goes and if things progress, and I pray they will - well, I can cut it down to half-a-letter a week, that will save on the credits don't you think?
Thanks a lot Rob - talk to you again soon.
John
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John,
Virtually all profile refreshes are instigated by the agency, with little and more likely no input from the the lady herself.
If this bothers you too much, i suggest that after you have reached an understanding between you both, then suggest that you both have your profiles hidden. If she agrees then at least you will have some idea to her sincerity towards your relationship.... Around the same time i would also start suggesting additional means of communications, such as IM and or IM/webcam.
David.....
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Mike
I follow everything you say and obviously I am a complete novice compared to you, so I would not dream of disrespecting you by disagreeing with what you say. In point of fact, I actually don't disagree with you anyway - I don't know if she knew about or sent the 'photos but what I do know, and I almost commented on it in a letter to her, was that she did not look happy dressed up in a little black dress and striking a pose; in fact she looked distinctly unhappy and uncomfortable. It just was not her and she knew it. Please don't misunderstand me, these are not girlie mag type photos, far, far from it, they are heavily photoshopped and vamped up. There is nothing revealing and I would be proud to have her on my arm dressed as she is. In that respect, I'm cool with the photos. But, from the little that I know of her, and the sincerity I see in her eyes in other photos, I can say without fear of contradiction that they are not her.
What I do strongly believe, is that she did send me the ordinary photos of herself 'outside' and she looked relaxed, happy and utterly beautiful - and I wrote and told her so (well, not the relaxed, happy bit, that wouldn't have been romantic you understand). It is also unsurprising that the letter she sent those photos with was the longest, loveliest I have received from her. I rest my case....
If I get one nano second of a chance Mike - I will make the trip, God willing it comes to that.
And Mike, I long for the day when I can paraphrase one sentence in your post that I am replying to:
"I do know that after I met Fei, it was clear that she would only talk to me, or see me, and NO OTHER MAN."
That will be one of the most special and proudest days of my life.
Thanks Mike, your thoughts have given me much consolation.
Have a good night and sleep well.
John
John,
Virtually all profile refreshes are instigated by the agency, with little and more likely no input from the the lady herself.
If this bothers you too much, i suggest that after you have reached an understanding between you both, then suggest that you both have your profiles hidden. If she agrees then at least you will have some idea to her sincerity towards your relationship.... Around the same time i would also start suggesting additional means of communications, such as IM and or IM/webcam.
David.....
Hi David
You are another one that I have come to know well from hours of clicking around and reading posts.
Wow! You people are all so amazing, you all have such incredible and valuable advice to give. There are so many good points here David, thanks a lot for that.
Please don't be offended, but how do you know about the profile refreshes? Are you absolutely sure? I really hope that what you say is so because, although I know I'm making a big deal about it, I was so wounded when I saw Fei's refreshed profile, and only 2 days after she wrote me such lovely words, including that "she cherished this chance." And, ok, some of it MAY have been the translator but I do believe she wrote the words I have quoted.
Yes, I'm going to move towards gently suggesting that she hides her profile, mine is already hidden, at a slightly later time. In fact it would be wonderful if Fei took that decision herself. I don't know about additional means of communication though as she has written that she does not speak or write English. I'll tackle that one at a later date but there is no way I 'm going to put her in an embarrassing position. Only she will know when she is ready for that and I'll be guided by her. I just hope with all my heart that we get that far and that Chnlove and translators don't ruin our relationship.
Gotta go now. Thanks David I really appreciate your help and advice
John
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John what David is telling you about the agencies refreshing the ladies profile is true.I do know this to be true because I asked my wife about it.And asked my wifes best friend about it.They both told me that the Agencies will refresh the ladies profile till all the fees have ben payed or the lady tells the agency that she doesn't want to be with the agency any more.
Maxx
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John, 100% its the agency.
My lady and I use msn all the time and dont use emf's any-more as her English is pretty good.
Yet her profile refreshes regularly and i know for a fact its not her doing it.
Another lady I know doesn't use chnlove anymore as she is married (her agency doesn't know) but somehow her profile refreshes every now and again.
Sometimes you just have to take a leap of faith with your lady. The amount of guys here that are engaged and married to women they met through chnlove is proof positive that there are plenty of genuine women on the system, but you do need to keep an open mind.
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John,
IM and even better IM/webcam, can be used as an additional means of communication, still using the EMF's as your main correspondence means. The webcam tells you much more than anything you write, it's a means of bringing two souls closer together. You can still communicate via IM, but in a very limited form using for example, google translate or MSN using their own Tbot 2 translation tool. But it is limited if your Lady has no English and you have no Mandarin, but it can be a form of fun too!! .... Just don't use the translation tools for any serious matters, as these translation tools can get things notoriously wrong. So leave those matters to your main form of correspondence.
As for knowing about things that go on at the agencies, my better half still has good connections to two of the chnlove agencies, both of them to date, are not mentioned in Chongs bad agency list.....YET!! hahaha!!
Also I think by now, it's common knowledge here at the Forum that the renewal of Lady Profiles are agency generated......
David....
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David5o quotes the 2nd golden rule - never use MSN/QQ etc. for important stuff!
As for communicating, you can easily write your lady chinese using Google translate. The trick is to translate your Chinese back to English, if you get identical (or similar) text back to your original English then she will understand it. Over time you will learn how to write English that translates well.
I'm not sure if it works the other way round. My lady sends me the wierdest stuff sometimes :huh:.
Also remember you can share photos on MSN, this always goes down well with the ladies. Especially if you send photos of you with your family!
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Hi Johnboy,
My heart can't stay still after reading all that you encountered. It's new members like you I care most because you are most often bewildered, frustratered and even scammed. Surely direct contact is the best way to sort out your doubts, but since you want it come naturally, here I repeat my advocation again. I have a cunning plan. As you said before, you are determined to learn Chinese to help in your communication with the lady, you can find a chance to mention in one EMF, then it will become natural for you to ask for the Chinese version of your letters to the lady as material in study. Your doubts can be diminished or proved by approval or reluctance. Could anyone who are in similar situations do me a favour to have a try?
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Hi there Proteus
You are a genius my friend! "Cunning plan" indeed, it's a master stroke! I will use it in my letter (as a footnote to the translator) to my lady, which I am sending this evening. Thanks also for your thoughts on EMF character allowance; you are right it's not actually a lie not to inform people that spaces are included but when I raised this with Chnlove they did not seem to know the answer themselves! On this one, I have had some very good advice from Brother Brett, who tells me that my letters are too long if I am using all my characters so, at this stage of my relationship, I am actually going to reduce them. But it would be nice to have the 8000/10000 characters available, that you posited, a little later on. I am also using simpler language and putting in the odd Chinese word/phrase (Ni rang wo kai xia, ni zheng piao liang); another of Brett's suggestions - THANK YOU BRETT!
I think you may have gone offline Proteus but if you can get back to me shortly I would be grateful if you could let me have the Chinese words for "I am not being conceited/big-headed/boastful/vain" that sort of thing, actually just "not being conceited" etc or some other abbrieviation or Chinese term that covers it would be better. My reason is, that when I'm writing to Fei (my lady) I constantly find myself thinking that what I am saying is C/BH/B/V (see above) and I want to occasionally drop something in to lighten the tone, like haha, so that I am not misunderstood. Fei lives in Chongqin, Chongqing so would she speak Mandarin, Cantonese?
*Hey, if any of the other Brothers picks this up, perhaps you could help me if Proteus hasn't been able to get back?*
Also proteus, if you have been reading the posts, you will see that I am in a dillemna over Fei's profile having been refreshed. This dillemna was heightened by the fact that it was refreshed only 2 days afer she wrote me a very nice letter ending with "I cherish this chance". I will writing to Fei tonight and I feel that I have to mention this in some way because, to use your well-chosen words, I do feel "bewildered" and "frustrated". I was going to send my letter last night but decided to observe the Brotherhood's 24 hour golden rule - and I am so glad that I have, it really works!! I am getting some fantastic advice from fellow Brothers, whom I have yet to reply to, but I wondered what your inestimable advice would be as someone who is involved at the 'sharp end' and has intimate knowledge and experience of the cultural differences between Fei and I? Should I deal with it gently (I will do that whatever I do!) gently and humourosly? Not mention it at all? In some other way that you can advise me on formed fromyour personal experience?
I know that I am doing this for selfish reasons - in which case I really should not mention Fei's profile refresh at all - but my heart is ruling my head, even though I have a very trusting nature. But you see Proteus, this Western man is completely captivated, enraptured and fascinated by this Oriental lady, even though I have never met her! And I know you will understand, and help me to understand.
Thank you from my heart Proteus.
John
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If I say something to Ke Ren, I just say the words 'boastful or Big headed', with a little explanation as too what they mean...:icon_cheesygrin:
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Thanks David 5o
I think your suggestion of using IM/webcam as additional communication means, whilst keeping EMF for main correspondence is a great idea. Obviously, at the moment, the no-Mandarin no-Chinese barrier presents a difficult problem but I think that once Fei has trust and confidence in me we could start to move towards using IM/webcam - can not wait!
Incidentally, does your better half have any contacts/connections with Chongqin Yanghongnian Marriage Introductory Company Ltd? If so, I would be very interested to hear..........
John
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John,
China as a whole has Mandarin as the official language of China. In some areas they will use the area language in day to day conversation, but all know and speak Mandarin. It's been the Official language taught at ALL schools, collages, university's since the very early 1950's.
Don't read too much into the profile refreshing, it's a non-event so to speak. You can mention it, but i wouldn't make too much of a deal about it....
I think you'll find that Proteus's idea about obtaining the translated version of your letters or pre-translated copies of your ladies letters has been put forward here a few times. Iv'e not heard if it's ever been successful as such, i think some have had one or two translated copies sent back to them, but i don't think it's ever been on a regular basis.... Perhaps if anyone is receiving regular translated copies of there letters or pre-translated copies of there ladies letters, you can let John know, and how you went about it??? Certainly no harm in trying yourself John!!
David....
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John,
Virtually all profile refreshes are instigated by the agency, with little and more likely no input from the the lady herself.
If this bothers you too much, i suggest that after you have reached an understanding between you both, then suggest that you both have your profiles hidden. If she agrees then at least you will have some idea to her sincerity towards your relationship.... Around the same time i would also start suggesting additional means of communications, such as IM and or IM/webcam.
David.....
All good stuff David. As you gathered, the profile refresh was the big issue with me and I admit I got hot under the collar about it. But thanks to all the great advice I've received here I decided to stay cool and mention the profile refresh but in a humorous way So I informed my lady that I had received my latest weekly matches from Chnlove because I had forgotten to stop Chnlove sending them when I hid my profile (which is true) and that one of my matches was her. Wrote a couple of lines saying how much I liked her; and ended by saying: "I also thought Chnlove made a very good choice in choosing you as one of 'my matches'. I could not have made a better choice myself! ha ha (big smile!!)" Saved! By the wisdom and experience of all those who were caring enough to give me such good advice here - AND Maxx's Golden Rule! Thank you everbody (BIG smile).
John
John what David is telling you about the agencies refreshing the ladies profile is true.I do know this to be true because I asked my wife about it.And asked my wifes best friend about it.They both told me that the Agencies will refresh the ladies profile till all the fees have ben payed or the lady tells the agency that she doesn't want to be with the agency any more.
Maxx
Thanks Maxx,
I had your words in mind, and those of many others here who have been so kind and thoughtful, when I sent my letter to Fei today. I have added a few lines that I wrote to Fei about her profile refresh as a reply in David5o's post on the issue.
Big thanks
John
John, 100% its the agency.
My lady and I use msn all the time and dont use emf's any-more as her English is pretty good.
Yet her profile refreshes regularly and i know for a fact its not her doing it.
Another lady I know doesn't use chnlove anymore as she is married (her agency doesn't know) but somehow her profile refreshes every now and again.
Sometimes you just have to take a leap of faith with your lady. The amount of guys here that are engaged and married to women they met through chnlove is proof positive that there are plenty of genuine women on the system, but you do need to keep an open mind.
Thank you Irishman,
I took your advice and kept an open mind and took that leap of faith.
And boy did it feel good!
Top of the morning to you Irishman.
John
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But John, from you tone I can feel you are certainly not a conceited/big-headed/boastful/vain person. If you want something to decorate and smooth your letter, some sweet songs or poems will do.
Please do ignore the refreshed of profile as David suggested, 99% possibly Fei has no idea of it.
Chongqing is in mid-west of China and the dialect is similar to that in Sichuan. But like David said Mandarian is official language in public places. Chongqing girls are generally known as straight-forward, generous, hot-tempered. But in her four pictures, Fei looks serene with a little melancholy?
About Yanghongniang, it's her website http://www.cnyhn.com/. Take care! My security software warned me of Trojan when browsing it.
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Ah, Proteus you are back. Thank you for your kind words. I see you have also done some research - excellent! Yes, you are correct in your description of Fei's pictures; I also think she looks serene but a little melancohlic - and also utterly beautiful. She has changed her pictures a few times with 'refreshes' and that look of melancholy is usually there.
I don't know about then rest of your description about Chongqing girls but she is certainly straight-forward and stresses it in most of her letters. I like that.
However, I think you are wrong about the 99% possibility that Fei has (had) no idea of her profile refresh, as I mentioned it in my letter today. I decided after all the thoughtful and experienced advice I received here (including from you) that I would approach my dillemna about this in a humorous way because, after all, what Fei chooses to do is her prerogative, and I respect that. I have already received Fei's reply and it was a very nice letter. I hope you won't mind if I quote what I wrote about Fei's profile refresh, and her response to that:
"One last thing Fei, just after you wrote your last letter to me I received an email from Chnlove with my 'latest weekly matches', I had forgotten to stop Chnlove sending them when I hid my profile because I did not want to receive admirer letters or write to anyone but you. Anyway, one of my 'latest matches' was you, and I saw that you had refreshed your profile two days after writing to me. I respect and accept what you wish to do, but I simply want to say that I really like you very, very much and I really cherish this precious chance to get to know you and to try to build a relationship with you.
I also thought Chnlove made a very good choice in choosing you as one of my 'matches'. I could not have chosen better myself! ha ha (big smile!!)."
Fei's reply to that:
"Thanks for you understand I did not hid (sic) my profile but I only chat with you. I am very honest for you, wish you trust me. I want to keep on touch each other and find more thing."
Would you PLEASE advise me about your interpretation of what Fei has written? I know you too will be straigh-forward and tell me 'like it is'. Is there any hope or comfort for me in Fei's words; or is she just being kind and telling me that she sees me as a friend or penpal?
Also Proteus, do you know much about Fei's agency? Is it good, trustworthy?
Thanks Proteus!
Hey Brothers, Vince G, Brett, David E, Irishman, Maxx, Mike mpo 474 et al; I would greatly appreciate your take on this!
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Hi John,
There's no definete answer when the question concerns a human's heart, especially a woman. I think her words are appropriate at this stage of your communication. You politely showed your notice of her refreshed profile without claiming her exclusive communication with you. She politely showed interest in keep that communication going without attaching bondage on her freedom in making future decisions. "find more thing" is what she wants to do.
To be straight-forward, as long as she is really herself communicating with you, there's no big problem. My worry lies elsewhere...
The feedback rating of Yanghongniang caught my attention, 77% is the lowest I've ever seen. I have no other knowledge to make objective judgement of it.
It's nearly mid-night here.Good night for now.
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John.
Remember that all your letters to and from Fei are via the translator. It's the translators that actually refresh the Ladies profiles they are responsible for. So the translator is not going to tell you she was responsible for refreshing Fei's profile. So the truth is, ...that what you were told here by the Forum still remains as to what actually occurred. The translator has just dressed up Fei's reply to your statement, neither denying or confirming Fei had refreshed her profile herself!!!
So Proteus was 'Not' wrong in what he had stated about the 99% probability that Fei had no idea about any profile refreshment.... Having said that, i would just forget all about the profile refreshment, it really is a non-problem!!!
David.....
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Thank you Proteus
And thank you for being so considerate in getting back to me so late at night at wherever you are. I hope you won't mind if I leave a response to your reply, in case you look in tomorrow?
Wise words Proteus, who knows what a woman is thinking in her heart?! The reason I specifically wanted your opinion on what Fei has written is because you will have deep insight in to the cultural aspect of a Chinese woman's ways of thinking; ie I may have a completely different understanding to you of what Fei's reply means - and on that I would bow to your judgement. It is also a great help that you are (I believe) a translator, sorry if I have got that wrong, and I presume this would give you even more insight in to what Chinese women mean in their letters?
The way I interpret what Fei is saying is that she is happy to " chat" with me but that she is looking for someone more suitable for her than me, in some way or another.
Also, I don't quite understand what Fei means by: "I wan to keep on touch each other and find more thing"? Does this mean "find more thing" between she and I or keep in touch with me whilst she looks for someone she feels is more suitable for her? I am hoping the objective point of the phrase "and find more thing" is "and" because if she had written "but it may have had a different connotation ie but look elsewhere perhaps? Sorry, my logic is failing me here,
The other thing that you don't know, because I haven't quoted it all, is that this last letter was a very nice one; also devoid of translator's fluff or dressing up, so I think we are beginning to write 'to each other', which is a big step forward because I suspected that a great deal of our previous correspondence was between a translator and I. I had been cautioned by Brothers here that often the first 5 or 6 letters were mainly translator influenced and I now understand that they are right. Spot on in fact, as Fei and I have exchanged 6 letters each. (hey, well done Brothers!) So, as I say, this last letter is at least a step forward.
Are you able to go any further on Fei's agency Feedback? I'm not very up on Feedback Ratings, what does Fei's mean? Hopefully not that there is potential thought for scammers/scamming? Another point about the agency is that it specifically has 'Marriage Introduction' in its title. So I presume that by being with that agency Fei is looking solely for marriage?
I agree with your thoughts that Fei's words are appropriate at this stage of our communication. In fact, I'm very pleased about that, and Fei comes across as being very respectable and respectful, as well as straight-forward and honest - and I respect that greatly. I would be rather worried if I was getting passionate letters fromFei saying Wo ai ni at this stage, as some of the Brothers have after 2 or 3 letters!
If you would be good enough to indulge me, two other quick points:
Firstly, I did not put a footnote to the translator in my letter asking for copies of Fei's letters in Chinese because I thought that the profile refresh issue was enough. Too many issues becomes heavy (boring?). I shall make the request a little later in a way that, hopefully will not embarrass Fei or cause her to, mistakenly, think I am 'prying' or implying dishonesty (probably the wrong word to use) on her part.
Secondly, I sent my letter to Fei at 4.4.30am this morning (I know, I'm a night owl and a workaholic!), and received her reply at 7.55am this morning - 3 and a half hours from London to Chongqin (to Fei and back to the agency), from Chongqin to London! How do they do that? In fact, all Fei's replies are usually in that time-span (except one, which took 2 days and this was one of the things that originally made me think I may be being 'scammed'. I do NOT think that now.
Proteus, I offer you my deepest appreciation and thanks; and bid you a very good night.
John
John.
Remember that all your letters to and from Fei are via the translator. It's the translators that actually refresh the Ladies profiles they are responsible for. So the translator is not going to tell you she was responsible for refreshing Fei's profile. So the truth is, ...that what you were told here by the Forum still remains as to what actually occurred. The translator has just dressed up Fei's reply to your statement, neither denying or confirming Fei had refreshed her profile herself!!!
So Proteus was 'Not' wrong in what he had stated about the 99% probability that Fei had no idea about any profile refreshment.... Having said that, i would just forget all about the profile refreshment, it really is a non-problem!!!
David.....
Thanks David,
I'm beginning to get the hang of it now - yakes some time with me but I do evebtually get there! My problem is that I have a very trusting nature (not being conceited - what is that Mandarin word?) so I tend to overlook or miss the machinations of the translators. So, yup, the Brothers are right, and Proteus is right. And you are absolutely right - the profile refreshment really is a non-problem. Thank you for putting ME right (no pun intended!) about that.
Incidentally, I've just left a post for Proteus, in case he looks in tomorrow. Could you have a look and give me your opinion on that; and particularly the turn-round times of my letter to and from China, bearing in mind the agency/client bits in-between?
Thanks David
John
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77% is quite low feedback for an agency. But perhaps someone has a personal agenda against them? Online dating is a multimillion dollar business, and it's obvious chnlove is fighting huge reputation wars against competitors.
Chongqing ladies will be lovely. My lady is from nearby Hubei province. They are a nice compromise between the shorter, dark skinned girls from the South and the tall pale skinned girls from the North. Chongqing would be a fantastic place to visit.
My lady's profile is still listed even at this stage of our relationship. Unless you go to see her and get engaged then the deal isn't done as far as the agency is concerned.
You should try and talk to her on MSN/QQ or Skype. My lady's agency is one of the best, but we now talk almost exclusively outside of EMFs which is fantastic.
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77% is quite low feedback for an agency. But perhaps someone has a personal agenda against them? Online dating is a multimillion dollar business, and it's obvious chnlove is fighting huge reputation wars against competitors.
Chongqing ladies will be lovely. My lady is from nearby Hubei province. They are a nice compromise between the shorter, dark skinned girls from the South and the tall pale skinned girls from the North. Chongqing would be a fantastic place to visit.
My lady's profile is still listed even at this stage of our relationship. Unless you go to see her and get engaged then the deal isn't done as far as the agency is concerned.
You should try and talk to her on MSN/QQ or Skype. My lady's agency is one of the best, but we now talk almost exclusively outside of EMFs which is fantastic.
Hi there Brett,
Thanks for that explanation. I have been meaning to reply to some of your other very informative replies but unfortunately have not got round to doing so, so I'm sorry for that. Yes, I understand that the loveliest girls in China come from Chongqin and that area; that was NOT why I chose Fei- I didn't know about it at the time.
I think I've finally come to terms with the profile refresh and I presume you have read my posts on it, which include what I wrote to Fei and how she replied. I would appreciate your opinion of that, and also of the astonishingly swift EMF turn-around, which really baffles me!
How long have you been with your lady Brett? I also read somewhere on Chnlove's site that the ladies say when they do or do not want their profiles refreshed. But I guess I've come to learn that's more of Chnlove's dishonest propaganda, such as being able to put your email and personal contact details in EMF's - oh sure, if you can get the EMF to your lady without the translator taking it out!
I tried your suggestion of putting Mandarin words/phrases in my last letter to Fei and she seems to like it as she replied in the same fashion. So thanks very much for that - and PLEASE keep the helpful suggestions coming.
Best thanks Brett
John
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Hi John,
I'm not sure really matters where the lady is from. Besides when you get to know her a bit more you might find her parents are from somewhere else entirely. Incidentally, asking if she's lived in her province all her life and where her family come from is a great question to ask!
I only met my lady in early August and I only signed up for chnlove at the end of July so things have moved very quickly indeed. I guess sometimes it works that way. We have been helped by the fact that we both work in IT so we have got our relationship outside of the EMFs working very well indeed, so have accelerated the relationship much better than many other people would be able to manage.
I guess my career in data analysis also helped me sift through the 1000's of potential ladies. In the end I liked the look of a specific lady, then she sent me an admirer letter a couple of days later, and we hit it off from the first EMF. Right from the start there was a real spark with this lady - she is a lot different to the other ladies, has a very strong personality and used natural photos in her profile.
My lady sent me her address in an EMF - I didn't have to pay for it. I guess it depends on how good the agency is. At the end of the day, their goal is to get you over there to meet the lady so it is in their interest to get you communicating.
EMF replies are quick sometime - being in the UK works in my favour as I can send one late at night and get a reply when I wake up. I rarely use EMFs now though.
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Greetings Brothers,
John, Let me step into this discussion and give you some words as well.
As everyone has already said the profile refresh is a translator/agency thing not your lady. Personaly I wouldnt give it another thought. Now having said that if the refreshes stop for a while then suddenly start up well that may be a different story but in your case it sounds like business as usual.
Now as for what Fei is saying in her response to you where she talks about "find more thing" and "chat" well here is my read on it. I see it as she is more than happy to continue writing to you (chat) and developing the relationship and learning about each other (find more thing).
What you have to keep in mind is that first your letter is translated at the agency into chinese. Errors and misconceptions can occur and the translator tries to make the letter make sense based on her view of what you are trying to say. Now your lady reads this adjusted letter and adds her view of what she thinks is being said. Now Fei writes her reply and the translator switches it to english and proof reads it to see if it makes sense and adjusts accordingly. Now the reply gets to you and you put your spin on it and read based on what you wrote and what you think you think you expect as a reply. Now also keep in mind that it appears from what Zhen and I experience with the electronic translator that english to chinese is much better translated than chinese to english. So your lady probably gets a pretty good idea of what you write to her, however the translation from chinese to english is not so great. Our experience has been that there are too many literal and possible translations for words coming from chinese to english that quite often the whole point gets lost.
As an example Zhen and I were discussing mortgages one day while we were sitting in a park in Handan. It took over an hour to get the basic premise across because the electronic translator kept getting confused. So first the agency runs the letter through the translation software they use in the agency then the live translator tries to adjust to make sense and you can see where so much confusion comes in.
As you send and receive more letters back and forth and assuming you keep the same translator throughout you will learn to interpret Fei's letters better. Basically what you need to do is what has been said so many times before. Work on the assumption that your lady is honest and sincere in her dealings with you and that the translator and agency are trying their best to help you both. Yes there are bad agencies and bad translators but they are as far as I can see in the minority. Also keep in mind that each human translator has different levels of english skill and experience with western writings. So each translator could in theory give your lady a slightly different version of your letter. Sometimes all it takes is a couple of words difference to change the whole meaning of the letter, or even a word or two left out during typing or even mispelled words.
When I visited our agency with Zhen we met with the owner, our translator and several of the ladies and discussed things like this. You must remember they are people too and sometimes when they(we) type we miss words or mispel words etc. I pointed out a couple things in our letters and our translator admitted it was her error. It takes time to get the hang of these letters and a feel for your translator and agency and lady.
Zhen and I have written at least one full length emf per day sometimes two each way since end of July. That is a lot of emf's back and forward. Now we have a webcam visit almost every morning for an hour and we still do emf's for the important stuff and to clear up what we thought we heard and said during the webcams hehe.
This form of internet dating and seeking your future wife is most certainly one of the most difficult, confusing, frustrating and downright annoying ways of finding the love of your life. However, if you ask any of the guys here, from those married, through us who are engaged, through those in a serious relationship and those heading in that direction I think they would all agree that it is soooooo worth it in the end. However they will also tell you that it is a long difficult journey fraught with frustration and grief and confusion and of course great expense and it most certainly is not for everyone.
So there you have it John, a few (sic) words of maybe wisdom from yet another of us who have been where you are now and progressed on to being in the happiest guy in the world club, and I personally would not change a single step of the way.
Zhen and I are utterly happy and convinced that what we have is the be all and end all of marriage bliss. Your mileage may of course vary since you are not me and Fei is not Zhen.
Good luck to you brother on your adventure, and if you are lucky I will keep my next response to a smaller book hehe
Regards, Zhen and Brian
PS, John I just went back and reread what you have written in your last posts and have to add a couple things. First I think your lady is not writing to you while waiting for someone else to come along. I think perhaps you are getting a little caught up in the negative stuff you have read and maybe getting a little paranoid!! While its true that the ladies are as free as we are to write to multiple people, from my personal experience and from talking with some of the ladies at Zhen's agency and also some of her friends who are also on CHnlove they are for the most part on this journey for one thing only, to find a husband. They are not looking for pen pals or chatting buddies, they can do that on QQ or Skype or MSN or any other online chat program.
Those ladies who go to agencies and pay sometimes large fees are deadly serious about what they want from this process. They want a husband to spend the rest of their life with. Thats it! Nothing Machiavelian or sordid or twisted or even weird. They are just looking for the last love of their lives.
Also as for the fast replies dont forget the time difference. Fei is probably getting your letters around the time she is finished work for the day and so has time to write to you immediately. For Zhen and I over the summer that was the case but once her son went back to school it became a lot harder for Zhen to get to the agency and reply to my letters.
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John,
Don't relax your guard at this stage of things, there is still a chance that your being scammed, or being led along right now by the translator. If i were you, i would be asking questions discreetly in your mails to her.... and see if the answers are freely forthcoming!!
3 hours does seem to be a quick turn around, but it all very much depends on what times your sending your EMF's, especially if she has use of a computer at work and/or at home. Perhaps you can make discrete enquires, about her work, and whether she has a home based computer or laptop. Maybe make a joke of how quickly she replies to your EMF's, and see if suddenly you start having to wait longer for her replies!! (a good indicator of translator writing the replies) If she has such access to computers, then all will be conducted over the internet between Fei and the translator, and is very feasible to have such quick replies. If contact between them is over the phone, then it's maybe, ....but it will also give the translator a greater scope to add the fluff into Fei's replies to you.
The feedback thing relates to the agency feedback from the men that have, or are using that agency to correspond with the ladies at that agency. If you go to chnlove and check a few profiles out from different agencies, you will see that at the bottom of the profile pages, they have an agency information section. It's there you will see the feedback percentage figures. I must say, 77% does seem on the low side, to be confident of this particular agency.
John, at this stage of things, nothing is sure, as you can imagine. So keep your eyes wide open and your wit's about you, until your sure in your own mind that everything between you is real.
Don't whatever you do, fall in love with a photo and translated words, that's about the worst thing you can let yourself do in these internet based relationships.
David....
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Hi Brett,
I'm quite sure that it doesn't matter at all where the lady is from, although I think I would be rather cautious to begin with if she was from Shangai - from what I've read here about 'Shangai Princesses' (smile!). Thanks for your suggestion that I ask her if she has lived in her province all her life and where her family came from; I think it's a great question to ask too. Why don't I think of these things?
Unfortunately I'm an IT 'geek' though I use it daily for work and am reasonably computer literate; so you are streets ahead of me there, and it's an added bonus that you and your lady both work in IT and are therefore able to progress your relationship outside of the EMF's restrictive practices. The thing I dislike about that most is having three people in the relationship.
I don't possess your skills in data analysis either, but just one look at Fei and I was lost! I know it sounds crazy, but then, so is life. I don't mean to sound personal, but did you ask your lady to send her address in an EMF or did she just do it? The feeling I have with Fei at the moment, is that if I asked for her address or email she would politely say no, or it's too early, or something like that. I'm cool with that, I like people to do what they want to do and not to feel compelled to do it. I would be happy to pay for the address but I would not do it behind Fei's back, so to speak. And going upfront about it and asking Fei if I could buy it would, I think, elicit the same no response. Guess I'll just have to leave that one for a little later down the line. But hey, putting the Mandarin phrases in my letter certaily seems to have got Fei onside, so I'm indebted to you for that!
Actually, the more I look at Fei's photos and read her profile and the letters she sends me, the more convinced I am that she has had a bad experience; unrequited love, been badly hurt/burned, I don't know but there's definitely something there - and Proteus picked up on that too with his melacholic comment and his thoughts between the lines. Perhaps that's why Fei is treating me cautiously. Or perhaps she just doesn't want to get involved with an ugly bugger? only joking I think I can say without (what is that Mandarin word for conceit?), that I am reasonably attractive. My female friends tell me I am and Fei wrote in her first letter to me that she was attracted at first sight to my photo. Damn! I've just realised, that was probably the translator. Oh no, here we go again, back on the merrygoround!!
Keep those suggestions coming please Brett - I'm on a mission to win my lady's heart!
Best ones, John
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John,
Don't relax your guard at this stage of things, there is still a chance that your being scammed, or being led along right now by the translator. If i were you, i would be asking questions discreetly in your mails to her.... and see if the answers are freely forthcoming!!
3 hours does seem to be a quick turn around, but it all very much depends on what times your sending your EMF's, especially if she has use of a computer at work and/or at home. Perhaps you can make discrete enquires, about her work, and whether she has a home based computer or laptop. Maybe make a joke of how quickly she replies to your EMF's, and see if suddenly you start having to wait longer for her replies!! (a good indicator of translator writing the replies) If she has such access to computers, then all will be conducted over the internet between Fei and the translator, and is very feasible to have such quick replies. If contact between them is over the phone, then it's maybe, ....but it will also give the translator a greater scope to add the fluff into Fei's replies to you.
The feedback thing relates to the agency feedback from the men that have, or are using that agency to correspond with the ladies at that agency. If you go to chnlove and check a few profiles out from different agencies, you will see that at the bottom of the profile pages, they have an agency information section. It's there you will see the feedback percentage figures. I must say, 77% does seem on the low side, to be confident of this particular agency.
John, at this stage of things, nothing is sure, as you can imagine. So keep your eyes wide open and your wit's about you, until your sure in your own mind that everything between you is real.
Don't whatever you do, fall in love with a photo and translated words, that's about the worst thing you can let yourself do in these internet based relationships.
David....
Greetings again Brothers,
Just a thought from Davids post, and by the way David is that little voice in your head that tries its best to keep you on the straight and narrow, or at least he was for me hehe. By and large David and I are at the opposite end of the dating online spectrum. I am a dyed in the wool romantic and David is more of a use your head and dont do anything stupid kinda guy. No offence David you know how much I value your little voice in MY head.
Anyway on to the point.I do not know what agency you are using with Fei but perhaps they are a relatively new one. If that is the case it would be easy to see how their rating is somewhat low. Also perhaps they have a translator or two who are as yet inexperienced with translating love letters back and forth between two totally different languages and cultures and are still working out the kinks. ALso keep in mind its really easy for one upset man to rate down an agency just because he got upset with the words that the lady may have said to him.
There are many different types of personalities involved here, the men, the ladies, and the translators. If a man for instance was being somewhat abusive or pushy, ( yes I have heard of this happening) or including sexual references, inuendo (yes I have that first hand info also),etc. and was rebuffed by the lady and or the translator a low rating could easily result.
From some of the stories I heard from Zhen's friends when I was with her and them in China its absolutely amazing what some guys write to these ladies. I have also heard of guys who drop the lady cold if they dont progress from emf's within 3 or 4 letters.
Since many of these lades do not have home computers, their english is as bad as our Mandarin and they are by and large not comfortable speaking english on the phome you can easily see how nonemf contact is resisted.
While I agree with the accepted wisdom that you need to get to alternate methods of communication and to get real life unshopped photos, please remember that each lady is different in her comfort level with this process, online dating in general, and her ability to reach the trust level where she will do these things.
Again for Zhen and I we exchanged all contact info , phone address email etc rather quickly, and did a 2 1/2 hour webcam very shortly thereafter ( with the help of the agency owner i might add), not everyone can accomplish the same that fast.
Remember also what has been said several times that most pictures on the profiles are heavily shopped and not alway to the delight of the ladies. So some may be somewhat scared to suddenly reveal their true likeness to you before haveing a chance for you both to get to know you better. I am sure many ladies have had guys run for the hills when the guy sees that her true beauty is not the playboy centerfold he thought she was.
Zhens profile pictures portray her as being closer to mid twenties than her actual age of 42, however after seeing her on the webcam the first time and then again in person and getting adjusted to her true look she is so much more beautiful than her shopped pictures could ever portray. Unfortunately many men bail out at the sudden change in look and dont give the lady's true beauty a chance to shine through and capture his heart. Very bad mistake in my opinion but then thats what is is , my opinion.
As for Davids very valid point about not falling in love with a picture and some emf love letters well here David and I agree to disagree. Zhen and I reached the commit stage very quickly in our relationship. We are both disgustingly romantic people and our letters were and are filled with the luvy duvy stuff that makes clear headed people cringe and their teeth ache from the sweetnes hehe. However when I went over on sept 6th to meet her it was like a total continuation of our emfs. You would almost think it was a script for a hollywood romance movie. We clicked instantly and their was no doubt that the chemistry was there on a massive scale. We were fated to be together and so we are.
However I am definitely not saying you will find the same as Zhen and I. I do believe we are the exception to just about every online dating rule imaginable. All I advise is to keep your mind and heart open and try to no be too analytical and witholding. If your lady doesnt feel the trust and the geniune effort to progress the relationship it will die just as fast as if you went nuts on her with weird demands or went romantic on her before she is ready.
A wide open mind and heart tempered with that not so common sense and a willingness to trust and allow trust will see you through. Remember the golden rules, Maxx's 24 hour rule is vital as is remembering the basic different culture different rules and also language differences and translations can kill your relationship. Add in a solid dose of advice from the brothers and you should be fine.
Regards, to all
Zhen and Brian
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Greetings to you and Zhen Brian,
Wow! You really are a heavyweight and one of my hero's too - I read so many of your postings too when I first joined the Brotherhood; mind you, that doesn't say much as I've got so many hero's on this site - and noooo I am not naming names haha. Seriously Brian, thank you so much for the in-depth insight you have given me in your long exposition on Chnlove, the ladies, the agencies, the translators and just about everything else to do with internet relationships. Absolutely brilliant! I am extremely grateful.
I won't respond to all the points you make, unless you've got a week to spare (and I get the feeling Zhen might take exception to that!), but I will absorb EVERYTHING that you have written and learn from it, because it is all so valuable, particularly the explanation about how EMF's and translation works, or often doesn't, as you so ably point out. Yes, you are quite right I was becoming slightly paranoid and caught up with the negative view of refreshed profiles, but I think I've finally surmounted that now and feel much better and calmer. The thing is Brian, if I did not care for Fei so much (or even care for her at all ie game player) none of it would bother me at all. It is because I DO care so much for Fei that the frustration and negative thoughts get to me. I don't think I have articulated that very well but I'm sure you understand where I'm coming from. And from what you have written about yourself and Zhen I understand where you are coming from - and it's where I long to be! I want to be in the happiest guy in the world club too! This is said seriously Brian there are no ha ha's.
Yes, I understand it's a tough road to take, and I've already learnt that it is fraught with frustration, confusion and annoyance (fortunately I haven't had to experience grief - yet) and I've just learned that it's even tougher than I thought. But that does not daunt me Brian, as long as Fei allows me to, and hopefully begins to encourage me to, I will be there. My friends and work colleagues tell me that I am the most perseverant person they have ever know (not being- what is that Mandarin word for...) and I'm sure you have heard that old adage 'perseverance is the enemy of failure'. The only thing that would turn me away is if Fei categorically and truthfully told me she did not want me or she wasn't intersted in me. And from what I know of her thus far she is very straigh-forward and honest and perfectly able to say those words in a polite way. Here I go again down that hill called negativity. I'm not normally a negative person Brian, I'm positive and I have a very optimistic outlook. But somehow I have let this get to me. Cooler and calmer now though, and if it is to be it will be. I am a strong believer in fate.
As regards your PS: I'm not really sure you are quite right about Fei not waiting for someone else to come along whilst she is writing to me - and there would be nothing terribly wrong if she was. Obviously I would hope that she would be decent about it and tell me sooner rather than later, and yes, I would be heartbroken! It's only natural for her to want her Mr 100% (Brett's term) if she can find him, I can empathise with that. I want my Miss 100%, it just happens to be her. You and Zhen have got your Mr and Mrs 100%, each other. It's perfectly understandable, and to some degree, acceptable, as long as it's premised in a decent, honest, unhurtful way - as much as possible; and therein lies the dillemna.......
Brian, you know far more about all of this than I will ever know and I am eternally grateful to you for sharing your wisdom and experience with me - as well as your utter and absolute happiness in being with Zhen, which leaps off the page! I shall revisit your words time and again, absorb them and digest them and, most important of all, I shall learn from them!!
My sincere thanks,
And my good thoughts and wishes to Zhen and you....................It's soooo wonderful to see two people in love.
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Morning Boys,
Are you in bed now, John? I'm 8 hours ahead of Greenwich.
After reading your words above and re-checked Fei's profile, I assume I know a little more of you both. Am I right to say you are a relatively sensitive man with a soft heart and care more of other people's feeling than your own? Your nature is inclined to be reigned by logic yet in love your heart speaks louder than mind?
As to Fei, the information I have only permits me to make some deduction about her life rather than personality. With a college certificate, she is probably computer literate and either has one of her own or has regular access to use. After all, Chongqing is a leading city in mid-western China with its competitor Chengdu. Clerk is a blurred word in describing profession. And from her profile, she seems to be a little naive still with the absolute romantic dream of love and her Prince. The word "perfect" in her profile caught my attention. It sounds a little inexperiencied so I assume she has not many stories to tell about her past romance.
I understand real pictures mean a lot to you and I think they should come as naturally as QQ and MSN. Request to direct communication may place pressure on ladies' confidence of their English yet request to "Real" photos suggests doubts on their profile photos. You may try some techniques to get your request fulfilled such as chatting about National Day vacation and asking her if she has had some trips then drawing the photo topic naturally.
About your situation, my brain is on David's side yet heart on Brian's. So I try to give you some advice that would apply in either situation. Please do bear in mind that particular words or phrases carries much less meaning than the whole letter so don't get into them deeply. You can find the translator's English level already in Fei's profile, right? As to her "find more things", I guess it means "find if there are chance between you two". At this stage of communication to this lady in her mid-20s, I suggest you try to find out what she really wants and tell her what you want. It's wise to engourage her long letters because I hope true love can breed between your further communication. My point is here, if someone can fall in love to only pictures our of his control, someday that love might leave out of his control.
As to the agency, it's a vetaran one starting coperation with chnlove as early as in March 2005. And its newest lady has the number P***490 but only 124 ladies available currently. Now two questions concerns me. 1. why such an experienced agency has such low rating? 2. where has the other 366 ladies gone? The fact that it recruits 490 ladies implies good local reputation but it contradicts with the low rating score. About the 366 off ladies, I assume they had their profiles taken down because of contract expiration. During the first year from 2005.3 to 2006.3, it recruits 250+ ladies, the second year 80, third year, 100, fourth year and a half 90. So I present here a bold deduction that its service quality is deteriorating.
Not very up-lifting researching result, but I hope it won't dampen your feeling to Fei. The agency is only a pool, it's your courage and perseverance that will help you find out whether she's lotus or swan. Looking forward to your next chapter of love story.
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Good Morning Proteus!
I am afraid that 'bed' is a distant relative to me these days, so much work to do. Thank you, thank you so much for your incredible research and analysis. But how do you know so much about me? You are so right in what you say. Amazing! I believe I can truthfully say I am a sensitive man, who cares about others feelings more than my own and I care deeply about those who suffer poverty, deprivation and social injustice. And, yes, my heart does rule my head - I make no excuses or apologies for that.
Your deductions about Fei's life sit completely with my opinions and the word "perfect" in her profile caught my eye too. She is definitely searching for her Prince and her romantic dream of love. But Proteus, I also see a sadness in her eyes and sense that she has suffered some past hurt; perhaps unrequited love, lost love, hurt in love - something of that nature. This 'sadness' also occasionally appears in her letters and I have the impression she is being cautious about me; not because of me as an individual but because of something else correlated to what I have already written ie unrequited love etc. It is as though she is afraid or very wary of involvement. Trust me Proteus, my intentions are pure and I would never dream of writing anything offensive or suggestive to Fei, and I genuinely believe she knows and feels that. She comments in her letters that I am gentle and kind and that I bring happiness to her. So I know that her reservations are not about my character or personality. But still there is something else. I really regret having to write in this way and almost feel that I am betraying Fei's confidence, but I know no other way to express my thoughts and feelings, so I shall leave this point here.
Returning to your analysis of Fei's life: she tells me in her letters that she is an assistant to the general manager of an insurance company, so I presume clerk would fit that description. From what I have gleaned from her last two letters she is computer literate and I believe she has or would have access to a computer. She was actually playing Devil's Advocate about the role of Internet and online relationships in her last but one letter and there was a strong sense of irony in what she wrote. So, again, you are correct.
I have not even considered broaching QQ or SMN at this point in our relationship, partly because I sense that Fei does not want me to but mainly because I would rather she moved naturally to talking (writing) about doing that. I can certainly 'steer' her gently in that direction but I want her to feel comfortable about it. I most certainly do NOT want her to feel embarrassed or that she has to do it. I make no demands of her, and at this time I am just seeing where our relationship is going to on issues such as that. I respect others' feelings and needs and I'm a very tolerant person. But I am also very perseverant, not in a 'pushy' or autocratic way but in being there, if that makes sense?
The 'real' photos are another matter: I asked her very gently (no demands) if she could send me some of her enjoying the sun, shopping with friends, that sort of thing, and she sent them with her next letter. Oh, joyous day! She is even more beautiful than her heavily photoshopped profile pictures. She has the most wonderful long, black hair, which is 'chopped' in her photoshopped pictures, and in her natural form she is utterly beautiful - and I told her so in my return letter - not exactly in those words because I didn't want her to think that I was being 'mushy' or fluffy, I leave that to the translators. Oh, I beg your pardon Proteus, present company excepted of course! The moral of this is that with gentleness and consideration and trust, other goals may be attained, QQ, MSN etc. Trust, Proteus, is the most important quality to Fei; she mentions it in her every letter, phrases such as "I wish you trust me", "trust and honesty are very important in relationships", "first we must have trust and build from there". These words are engraved on my heart and mind, and are another reason why I think Fei has suffered a hurtful romance - although, in my book, hurtful and romance do not sit well together; indeed, they are the enemies of each other. I may of course be wrong, but I am very susceptible to the feelings of others, especially those I feel affection for. I also hasten to add that trust is a vital requirement for me in a relationship too, along with honesty and faithfulness and mutual respect.
Incidentally, Fei and I have chatted about her National Day vacation. she went on a trip to Chengdu with her family, so your suggestion gives me another idea for one of your 'cunning plans', Thank you Proteus, I am beginning to like you enormously! And do not fret Proteus I am not so naive, nor so baseless as to fall in love with a picture. But I grasp the moral behind your narrative, and it is well-put.
Your Brian/David, heart/mind advise has really opened my eyes and I take your point regarding the relevance of particular words or phrases carrying much less meaning than the whole letter. I had in fact been doing the opposite until Mike MPO advised me to concentrate on the 'meat' of the letter; I did this with my last exchange of letters with Fei and it turned out to be fabulous advice - our best letters yet! It does help though when the translator isn't popping their fluffy bits in. How can I put a complete stop to that? Footnote saying: "Hey translator stop putting the fluffy stuff in or I'll get Vince and his little friend (enormous dog, have you seen it?) to pay you a visit"? Seriously, the fluffy stuff has been getting in the way and causing problems, and anyway, when or if the the occasion arises, I like to express my own terms of affection and endearment. Advice on this gratefully received (NOT on the terms of affection etc!).
Returning to your advice. Your point about finding out what Fei wants from life and telling her what I want from life is astutely aposite (in fact Brett has already suggested I should do this). The problem is that Fei tells me she is not good at writing, so it may be difficult, without making her feel uncomfortable, to encourage her to write longer letters as you suggest and I want to avoid embarrassing her at all costs. I have been encouraging her with small compliments such as telling her that she is a good writer but she is not convinced; this leaves me with the conundrum of what to do, what to see, where to go. It also leads me to think that Fei lacks confidence, whereas I have bags of the stuff (what is that Mandarin phrase for not being ...?). Again, any advice about this would be gratefully received! Yet again, another device that I found incredibly helpful, as an ice-breaker, was Brett's brilliant suggestion that I put the occasional Mandarin word or phrase in my letters to Fei. I did this in my last letter and it worked wonderfully and provoked a similar response from Fei who seemed to be delighted that I had done it. So, yes you have guessed, the whole of the next letter is going to be in Mandarin!
Your understanding of the meaning of Fei's words: "find more thing", is of great comfort to me because I was viewing them from a negative aspect. But reading your thoughts I think you may very well be right. I do hope so. Morover, I have fathomed the translator's level of English, both from Fei's profile and her letters; I will leave my comments at that, save to ask, do these people realize what grief and confusion they cause, whether intentionally or not?
Similarly, your research of Fei's agency is prodigious, how do you do it? And no, they are not very uplifting results at all. And no, it does not dampen my feelings for Fei by one iota. And on your last point dear Proteus I am lost, for I can not for the life of me fathom your very enigmatic maxim of my courage and perseverance and and my discovery of whether Fei is a lotus or a swan. Given that both are beautiful and, in different ways, desirable I am lost as to the rationale of your thinking. I understand the "agency is only a pool" part, does that correlate with the swan eating the lotus floating on the pool? Please tell me, I might be tested on this one in a letter from Fei!
I am sorry if this is overlong, it was longer, but a large piece of my text suddenly disappeared, which I am sure will please you immesely!
I thank you again from my heart Proteus for bearing with me and giving me such insight in to matters of which I have no knowledge - I am indeed an innocent abroad. But, like you, I looks forward to the next chapter of this contining love story - only from a different perspective......
Ni rang wo kai xin
Ah, I have it Proteus. A lotus is a flower of beauty that captures the eye but once it has bloomed will wither and die, A swan is a thing of beauty and grace that mates for life and is faithful to its mate. It is which of these two that I choose from the agency pool that will determine my fate. You are a very clever man Proteus and I bow to your intellect. I, on the other hand, am a very perseverant man, and perseverance is the enemy of failure. You may rest assured that I have the courage and perseverance to find my swan and pursue my fate.
Trust me!