China Romance
General Discussion and Useful Links => Ask An Experienced Member => Topic started by: Hans on August 29, 2009, 12:17:34 pm
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OK, I have to get this off my chest. I apologize for the length of this text.
I have been corresponding with my lady since early May now and I have felt more and more confident that we will actually meet like we have discussed. Nothing has indicated so far that she is fake or that she is corresponding with other men (knock on wood). We correspond every two or three days (that is what I have time for right now) and write short emails in Chinese as well.
I only have one problem. From the very beginning she has been sending me studio pictures. We talked early on about meeting via webcam and talking on the phone. She seemed very eager to do it. Then she said that since the agency is so far away and she would like to have an interpreter with her the first time we meet on a webcam, maybe we should wait. I was disappointed but accepted that she was shy. I asked for her phone number and she replied that her phone didn't have an international service so I could not call her. I asked for her number again and said that I wanted to try anyway, I could send a text message and we would both see if she received it or not. No reply.
I have kept asking for REAL pictures of her, she has kept replying that she does not have a camera. I suggested that maybe she could use her phone to take some pictures. She replied that the quality would be bad and when I told her I didn't care about the pixel quality she finally sent me two pictures (apparently not taken with a phone but with an ordniary camera). I was very happy and thought that maybe she had borrowed a camera from a friend. But no, she suddenly "found" the pictures in her computer.
I sent her a hand written letter in Chinese. She was very happy and excited when she got it and took two photos of it. So suddenly she has got a camera now? About the webcam suggestion: She lives in a dormitory at her company but has a computer in her room which she uses to send the letters to the agency. So what is the problem? She apparently has a camera at her disposal and she does have her own computer, still she is not willing do to anything else but write EMF letters and emails. I keep sending her pictures of me but I never get anything back (she send romantic pictures and music but honestly I would prefer pictures of her, not hearts and flowers).
I have thought about these issues more and more and to be honest, I am pretty disappointed. I understand that she is shy. But if she can't even send me pictures because of it, what will happen when we finally meet (trip scheduled for December)? Will she hide behind a tree? As a student going to China is a big economic commitment for me. I don't want to go there not feeling entirely commited to her. If I am going in December, I would like to have more certainty about this woman. Letters are not enough. Just like a girl said to me recently: "People can write anything in letters, it's easy to write I love you. A child can do that."
She has sent me a "gift" in the mail, it would take up to two weeks to arrive so I am waiting to see what it is before I decide anything drastic. But right now, I feel the spirit is slowly fading away (the first sign is that the letters are harder to write).
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Letters are not enough. Just like a girl said to me recently: "People can write anything in letters, it's easy to write I love you. A child can do that."
Wait to see what this "gift" is...maybe you will have to write her a letter and tell her what you wrote here...that the letters are just not enough. You want your relationship to move forward, and it seems to have come to a standstill.
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Hans, she is worried like crazy that you won't like the "real" her is how i read this.
If she has sent you a real picture in the post then great, make sure to flatter the heck out of her when you get it.
Send her some of your bad pictures, ones that you don't like of yourself, ones that will make her realise you are the real deal..for better or for worse.
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Hans there could be a number of reasons.Why she doesn't want to do the web cam.Biggest reason is probably her English ability.The other reason is how much is the agency going to Charge her for the web cam session.(You Have to set up the link have a translater.Get time off from work to go to the agency) If she is working in a factory she doesn't make alot of money.And she has already laid out alot of money to just be registerd with the agency.
I think I would just do like Martin suggested.Wate and see what the gift is.Then move forward from there.
You don't know all the facts to her living and working conditions.Or the contract she signed with the agency.This all could be a strain on her finances.And There is still a halfe a dozen reasons why she won't do a web cam.
If you feel you haven't gained any forward motion with the relationship before your trip.Put the back up plan in order.Have the agency name phone # and address.I'm sure they would be more then happy and introduce you to another lady.
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Hans, she is worried like crazy that you won't like the "real" her is how i read this.
If she has sent you a real picture in the post then great, make sure to flatter the heck out of her when you get it.
Send her some of your bad pictures, ones that you don't like of yourself, ones that will make her realise you are the real deal..for better or for worse.
Yes, that is how I interpret it too. And I will wait for the package before I address this issue with her. I can understand if she is uncertain and all that but I am not here just to write letters, I don't want a pen pal. I never had this problem with the ladies I was corresponding with before. I want things to move forward, otherwise I can go look for someone else. If she has been lying about the camera, I am not sure if I want to pursue this.
Btw, I have sent all kinds of pictures to her because I ran out of the "good" ones pretty fast. So she has certainly seen what I look like.
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Hans there could be a number of reasons.Why she doesn't want to do the web cam.Biggest reason is probably her English ability.The other reason is how much is the agency going to Charge her for the web cam session.(You Have to set up the link have a translater.Get time off from work to go to the agency) If she is working in a factory she doesn't make alot of money.And she has already laid out alot of money to just be registerd with the agency.
I think I would just do like Martin suggested.Wate and see what the gift is.Then move forward from there.
You don't know all the facts to her living and working conditions.Or the contract she signed with the agency.This all could be a strain on her finances.And There is still a halfe a dozen reasons why she won't do a web cam.
If you feel you haven't gained any forward motion with the relationship before your trip.Put the back up plan in order.Have the agency name phone # and address.I'm sure they would be more then happy and introduce you to another lady.
Thanks Maxx. You completely right, I don't know all the facts. It's good I have some time to think about this because right now, I feel like sending her an angry letter. And I won't.
I have told her that we can speak Chinese during our webcam meeting. I can prepare well and she wouldn't have to speak a word of English. Since I and the lady have been talking about the importance of honesty so much from the very beginning, I dislike if she is lying to me for whatever reason. Maybe earlier relationships have made me too sensitive about it, but I simply don't tolerate lies.
I don't think I will go to China in December if it won't be to visit her. I am a student and therefore I can't stay for longer than 8-9 days. It is hard enough to get to know a person who speaks your language during that limited period of time, to meet a complete stranger from the agency who doesn't speak a word of English would probably not be very successful.
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I understand that you have put a lot of effort into this.And you don't feel the lady is puttimg forth the effort.I would probably feel the same way as you.
But we don't know what the translater is telling the lady.Is the translater translating the whole letter or is the translater just giving her a consolidated version of the letter.The only way to find out is to eather get the lady away from the translater or go to China.And have the face to face meeting.
I would just flow with it.you have alot of time to work on the web cam Chat.
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Maybe it's a money thing? When you show up she has a fee to pay so maybe she's trying to slow it down?
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Hans , here is how I see it .
First , your only 27 , so you have many year's left to find the " RIGHT " Woman for yourself .
Second , she has been reluctant about the Photo's of her real self . I would never ask more than twice or move on .
Third , If she indeed lied to you , as much as you dislike lies ... also let it go .
Fourth , it might break her Heart if you call it quit's .
And last , you go and see her and you see how she realy feels about you ..face to face .. no hidding behind anything .
So ... let's see , if I had the Finances at your age , I'll go and see her . If it's a bust , enjoy the rest of your Trip , you never know if you will ever come back there . Your chinese skills will help you along right either way . So what are you waiting for ? besides the Gift package ?
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Vince, I don't think it is a money issue, actually. I have not had the feeling that she does not want me to visit her in December. She has told me she will be very, very nervous, though (naturally, so will I).
Arnold, you're a quite relaxed guy, aren't you? :icon_cool: I usually follow my gut instinct on things, including relationships. What I feel inside. Since I haven't received the gift package yet, I can't do much yet except speculate.
I know it would probably break her heart if I told her I want to back off from this. But on the other hand, I can't go along with a relationship just because I don't want to upset her! Am I just to accept that 1) she does not want me to see real pictures of her and 2) that she is lying to prevent me from asking?
Yes, I know a little Chinese. But she lives in Guangdong province, where a lot of people speak Cantonese. I study Mandarin. She has told me that she does speak Mandarin too but I begin to fear that her accent is so completely different from the Beijing accent I study and understand that we will not be able to communcate without a translator between us anyway. That is one reason I would like to speak to her on the phone before I visit her, to limit the number of "?".
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Hans you have legitimate concerns here, which would have worried me too. I think you should insist on getting her on a webcam before you set off for China (by the way, even this itself would't grantee a success). If her reluctance to chat on a webcam is really because of the language issue, why doesn’t she get QQ, which most Chinese with an access to a computer do? Both QQ and MSN have translation facilities, so long as you are writing short sentences back and forth, you can get a reasonable translation out of it.
Good luck anyway mate.
Torano
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Hans,
I just recently had my first web-chat. If there was not an interpreter there I think it would have been horrible. She kind of kept things moving along. Plus she encouraged Pinky to talk and to sing. Pinky was as nervous as I was. We spoke and hour and 15 minutes and I didn't say one word in Mandarin; didn't even think of it. Nerves.
Secondly the picture thing. From reading a lot of the threads here it appears many of the women there fear natural pictures thinking we might leave. Pinky doesn't have one but is a restaurant owner. I imagine their sense of economics is much different than ours. Here in America we men have a tendency to like gadgets and toys of all kinds. The women there see to be more practical in their expenditures. She may still not own a camera and is borrowing one from a friend. By the way, I did get my photo and only one. I ordered her a camera and a photo printer only to find that it was defective and sent it back. Bought it on ebay.
Consider this. The real problems is that you could possibly be having second thoughts about going to China. This is normal because of the expense involved. If it was not expensive almost every single man would go to China.
All of what you have been saying could be as a result of the translators input into the emf. I recently discovered that Pinky's translator has been writing things to me and not passing them to Pinky to keep the translator the only form of access. I imagine it happens all of the time. After all this is one of the ways they make money. After a web-cam visit and a trip the translator is usually out of the picture and they know it so consider your options carefully.
Shaun
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Irishman has a good suggestion about sending bad pictures of yourself. I sent my girl some pretty bad pictures of me (harsh lighting, no photoshopping, no softening, rubbish clothes, drinking beer with buddies) but she's still interested.
Mine still won't send natural pictures of herself to me directly through email. I think this is just a woman thing more than anything else. Fortunately, unlike many of the other girls she has sent me pictures of her out and about, rather than in the studio.
Also I heard that if you don't visit your girl within 6 months then they will naturally begin to think that you're not the man for her, after all if a man is *really* in love with a girl he will drop everything and book that flight.
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Hans
At 27 I would not be looking for a wife I would be taking up all the offers I get at even my extended age.
At your age I woulds find a way to live in China and just enjoy, enjoy, enjoy.
I am 60 and and am still putting off women as young as 20 from coming on strong.
Willy (the Viagra warrior)
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LOL Willy, an apt name for the Viagra Warrior
:icon_cheesygrin:
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Willy
Now ....That statement , i can wholeheartedly agree with, and he isn't the youngest here looking for a wife either, there are a couple at and around 22 yrs.
As you say, much better to go and try and live in China, (or any other country come to that) and play the field, and enjoy life, before thinking about settling down. Also, when you are ready to settle down, the Visa process is a lot easier and simpler when your living in the country! So a winner all round at the end of the day haha!!
OH, ....to have the chance to be Young Again!!!!!
David.....
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LOL Willy, an apt name for the Viagra Warrior
:icon_cheesygrin:
Looking at it your way it seems even more amusing.
I wonder if there is a name for an excess of Viagra?
Willy
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Thanks Maxx. You completely right, I don't know all the facts. It's good I have some time to think about this because right now, I feel like sending her an angry letter. And I won't.
I have told her that we can speak Chinese during our webcam meeting. I can prepare well and she wouldn't have to speak a word of English. Since I and the lady have been talking about the importance of honesty so much from the very beginning, I dislike if she is lying to me for whatever reason. Maybe earlier relationships have made me too sensitive about it, but I simply don't tolerate lies.
I don't think I will go to China in December if it won't be to visit her. I am a student and therefore I can't stay for longer than 8-9 days. It is hard enough to get to know a person who speaks your language during that limited period of time, to meet a complete stranger from the agency who doesn't speak a word of English would probably not be very successful.
Yes, do not tolerate lies! I agree with everyone here about giving it a little more time! It more than likely is the agency and not the lady that is telling you this! You know as well as everyone else here you do webcam, you can do all chatting by keyboard! There is nothing to fear about this! She has a computer in room, more than likely she has a cam too...or can pick-up a cam very cheap! You have been chatting since May...I agree with you about moving forward with this!!! By the way, 99.9 percent of the people in China have mobile phones or close to that percentage and growing daily! If your ladies English is this bad, she will hesitate with phone number! No excuses for webcam! The notion that China is still in pre-historic times is FALSE!:dodgy:
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I have been with my current girl here in China for 6 or 7 weeks now. She is still not confident in English for us to talk by telephone when we are occassionally apart. How would a webcam improve her English?
How many of the men on this forum would be willing for their ladies to speak to them in Mandarin or Cantonese and for them to answer with their limited knowledge of thsee languagesa. Why do we expect the women to speak our language
Willy
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It is my limited experience, if you have a web cam and are using QQ, you don't need to worry about bad pictures. The cam quality is marginal to terrible. So it's real life baby.
QQ is a trip down a rocky road. But it works, even if you understand little or no Mandarin. It is a great way to teach each other simple expressions and pronunciation. Those of us who speak English as a primary language think it sounds so simple. But for someone who speaks Mandarin with all of the various inflections and intonations, it is mysterious..
I am fortunate that my lady is willing to show up in her night gown. Now that's real. Unfortunately, it's not sheer enough. :icon_cheesygrin: She seems totally comfortable with herself. She had neither a computer or web cam until two weeks ago. Does she look different than her shopped photos? Somewhat. But I figure, I am not cultivating a relationship with a picture.
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It would seem that to some my age is suddenly the problem here. Let me explain then. Since I still have three semesters left of my education I can't move to China yet. When my education is finished I will also have reached the level in my Chinese class when I get the chance to study Mandarin in China. I decide what to do there and then. I don't see why I can't look for a lady at the same time, though. I do want to move from Sweden sooner or later.
I am here to find a girl, yes, but I am not in a hurry. If I get married next year or in four years, it doesn't really matter. However, when I am putting time and effort into something I expect something back. That is why I feel the contact with my lady has come to if not a stand still at least slow motion.
Many of you guys say that the agency (which means the translator) is (or could be) at fault. How the h*ll can I know? I could try to put my concerns to her in Chinese in an email. But I am not sure I would be able to be specific enough. I did suggest QQ specifically when I suggested a webcam meeting before but she did not take notice. I could give it another try. Because right now, I don't really now how to move on. It feels like we can write EMF letters and Chinese emails forever without taking any further steps and that is NOT what I want.
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However, when I am putting time and effort into something I expect something back. That is why I feel the contact with my lady has come to if not a stand still at least slow motion.
I did suggest QQ specifically when I suggested a webcam meeting. I don't really now how to move on. It feels like we can write EMF letters and Chinese emails forever without taking any further steps and that is NOT what I want.
Hans, Just tell them that. In the US we have a saying, "Shit or get off the pot" (for them not you)
If they (the girl and translator) don't want to move forward? Move on. I would also add in the next pick won't be with that agency.
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It is my limited experience, if you have a web cam and are using QQ, you don't need to worry about bad pictures. The cam quality is marginal to terrible. So it's real life baby.
QQ is a trip down a rocky road. But it works, even if you understand little or no Mandarin. It is a great way to teach each other simple expressions and pronunciation. Those of us who speak English as a primary language think it sounds so simple. But for someone who speaks Mandarin with all of the various inflections and intonations, it is mysterious..
I am fortunate that my lady is willing to show up in her night gown. Now that's real. Unfortunately, it's not sheer enough. :icon_cheesygrin: She seems totally comfortable with herself. She had neither a computer or web cam until two weeks ago. Does she look different than her shopped photos? Somewhat. But I figure, I am not cultivating a relationship with a picture.
From what I have seen and come to know, Chinese people have very small eyelashes, the studio pics, they all use eyecolor and longer lashes...not saying that women don't use longer lashes elsewhere! I agree with "NOT" cultivating a relationship with a picture! If this is all you guys are interested in...look for a local Chinese woman where you live! "Most"(not all) of these women are looking for a soulmate, on chnlove.
I completely agree with you Vince! Shit or get off the pot! Hans, there are ways to manipulate this and get results! You must use some patience, then let it be known how you feel! Do not go off in an angry direction...this will not be, what you truly are looking for!
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It
I am fortunate that my lady is willing to show up in her night gown. Now that's real. Unfortunately, it's not sheer enough. :icon_cheesygrin:
From my experience here it is nothing unusual for a female to come home and change into her sleeping clothes while settling down in the comfort of her own home.
Willy
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From my experience here it is nothing unusual for a female to come home and change into her sleeping clothes while settling down in the comfort of her own home.
Willy
Ok Willy...so as soon as you come home, Ladies change into nighties.....it would be a great help to all Bros if you told us what is your secret formula to make this happen :icon_cheesygrin:
DavidE
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From my experience here it is nothing unusual for a female to come home and change into her sleeping clothes while settling down in the comfort of her own home.
Willy
Ok Willy...so as soon as you come home, Ladies change into nighties.....it would be a great help to all Bros if you told us what is your secret formula to make this happen :icon_cheesygrin:
DavidE
No secret at all - where i am in Zhuhai the weather is very hot and wearing the light clothing is just more comfortable for them.
Mind you they will change again before actually going to bed.
Willy
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I have noticed that in almost every instance i see a woman here printing a photo it is photoshopped, almost every single time. So for them it is not unusual to do this. So for her not to, is a big step. They get it in their minds that you have to see the perfect woman and it takes a lot of trust for them to change. I stop and look at every store they do this in. they think we have this image of them (and we usually do) as a perfect beautiful woman and they try to give us that. One more way that they try to please us. So take it easy on her about it. She is more than likely not trying to con you. She is probably just doing what she has learned to do.
Willy, Priapist is the overuse of Viagra. lol
Yes, they do take off their regular clothes as soon as they get home and change into a nightgown. that is perfectly normal here. My wife puts her nightgown on the minute we hit the door. Even if she has good women friends coming over she leaves it on. No, it is not sheer.
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Willy, Priapist is the overuse of Viagra. lol
I dont want to be 'pist' in any language - I will stick with my overdose thanks!!!:icon_biggrin:
Willy
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Back to the topic then... I received my lady's package last week. She sent me a Chinese doll of some sort, a big "true lover's knot", a handwritten postcard, a scarf for my mother (which looked like something you could hang in the Christmas tree so I had to ask what it was) and a few photos (Photoshop style, of course). I was very impressed with her gifts, I didn't expect her to send me such a big package. Although I would still have preferred real pictures of her instead of all this, I have to hand it to her. It felt like she really put some time and energy into it.
I wrote her a letter and asked the questions I felt I needed to ask. I wasn't rude or blunt but very honest. We have talked about honesty for such a long time and I am not a guy who can pretend, if I feel the need to discuss something I will. I brought up the "moving along" issue with her and just like last time she said that we could arrange a webcam meeting, but only at the agency. Which means that we will have to make an appointment so that she can travel 400 kilometres to the agency just to have a short webcam meeting with me.
I also asked her about the camera. Her explanation was that she borrowed a camera from a collegue to take the pictures of the letter I sent to her. To me it is obvious she doesn't want to take pictures of herself and send to me. No matter if she does have a camera or not, she still got the camera in her mobile phone. But she managed to reject that option before as well. She has sent me the same pictures again and a new one, all taken a long time ago.
Her explanation for not wanting to have a private webcam meeting just between the two of us is that she is too shy. But I don't think this is the main concern. I talked to my Chinese teacher at the university yesterday. She is from Shanxi province and she told me that she can't understand the Guangdong dialect. And she is Chinese! It is possible that all the Mandarin I have learned and am learning, is for sh*t. I should have known because I am familiar with the fact that there are plenty of different dialects in China. But I guess I was just swept away at some point...
Does anyone have experience talking Mandarin with people in or from southern China?
Right now I am standing in the middle of the road not knowing if I am to continue to the other side or turn back.
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Hans, maybe you should just be honest and tell her you don't feel comfortable visiting her until she sends you a proper photo. And say that you will regrettably have to cease contact with her if she doesn't. It looks like you don't really have a choice if she is going to keep stalling. What you are asking for is not unreasonable, and if she was that keen, she would find a way. I think a final ultimatum is all you can really do.
BTW, it is good to see a younger poster here. I am 30 years old (younger than most here it seems) and also studying Mandarin (although you sound like you are far better than me), I can sort of relate to your situation.
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I talked to my Chinese teacher at the university yesterday. She is from Shanxi province and she told me that she can't understand the Guangdong dialect. And she is Chinese! It is possible that all the Mandarin I have learned and am learning, is for sh*t. I should have known because I am familiar with the fact that there are plenty of different dialects in China. But I guess I was just swept away at some point...
Does anyone have experience talking Mandarin with people in or from southern China?
Right now I am standing in the middle of the road not knowing if I am to continue to the other side or turn back.
Yes the dialect is different to what you learn. It is the same as them learning English - they are taught correct English with neutral dialect the same as your Mandarin has been. But once here you will pick up the local dialect and adjust your words accordingly.
Willy
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Dialects are confusing. My Mandarin speaking lady (from Hubei Province) tells me that she can't understand the Shanghai dialect very well. And yet she did work in Guangdong for a while and can undertstand Cantonese :huh:.
As I understand it, in Southern China the main language is Cantonese (and maybe Hakka dialects?). Mandarin is supposed to be taught in schools, but I guess the more highly educated a person is, the better their Mandarin would be.
I still think the long English tradition of shouting at foreigners until they understand is the best way to communicate lol :icon_cheesygrin:.
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For all those worried about learning Mandarin and not being able to talk to there ladies living in and around
Guangdong, don't worry too much, the official language that they were taught at school was Mandarin. Many Chinese move from mandarin speaking area's to live and work in and around Guangdong. So if they can get by, so can you....
The only problems you would face is if your lady were from Hong Kong, that is a pure Cantonese speaking area, and also only write in traditional Chinese, not simplified Chinese. I understand that Taiwan, also has major differences, with dialect to Mainland China...
David......
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Hans, in Guangdong its more than just a dialect, its a completely different language - Cantonese. Cantonese has seven tones compared to Mandarins five and is even harder to learn as a result. Unless you have family or grew up in the area there is no way you are going to understand it even if you speak Mandarin. Even to my ear its easy to tell the difference in the language, in the same way I can tell the difference between say German and Italian even though I speak neither language.
This is not like a regional dialect where the basic language is the same, just pronounced differently. For example my Ling can understand people from Shanghai even though they have their own regional dialect but she cannot understand Cantonese at all (I asked).
This extends also to the written, in Cantonese areas they write in Traditional Chinese compared to the Simplified Chinese used in Mandarin speaking areas. Most Chinese can read most of this but as a westerner it will be difficult to figure out that.
Most state TV is in Mandarin so most people in Guangdong province will speak Mandarin as well as Cantonese but some of the older folk wont.
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Ronan,
Not quite right, stating that the Cantonese mainland provinces only use Cantonese and writing in Traditional Chinese. The official language as both written and spoken, relates to Mandarin, which is simplified Chinese. Only Hong Kong is pure Cantonese speaking, and pure traditional Chinese in there writing. This is how the migration of any Mainland Chinese from whatever area, can live and work in another, without the hindrance of language problems. Every Official government department and all official documents and paperwork will be in Mandarin, and simplified Chinese. Only in relatively recent times have they had Local dialect newspapers and TV channels that have been allowed to broadcast in local dialects The rest of your post is a good assessment of the situation....
David...
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Hans, in Guangdong its more than just a dialect, its a completely different language - Cantonese. Cantonese has seven tones compared to Mandarins five and is even harder to learn as a result. Unless you have family or grew up in the area there is no way you are going to understand it even if you speak Mandarin. Even to my ear its easy to tell the difference in the language, in the same way I can tell the difference between say German and Italian even though I speak neither language.
I am not talking about Cantonese, of course I know it's a completely different language. I was referring to the Mandarin spoken in Guangdong. My lady has told me that she speaks both Mandarin and Cantonese but naturally her Mandarin will not be the Beijing putonghua I am used to. Hence the problem. She doesn't seem concerned about this at all while I am very concerned about it. I guess I won't find out the result until we have spoken on the phone or via webcam.
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Willy, Priapist is the overuse of Viagra. lol
I dont want to be 'pist' in any language - I will stick with my overdose thanks!!!:icon_biggrin:
Willy
Foreploy: Any misrepresentation about yourself for the purpose
of getting laid. :icon_biggrin:
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OK, I have to get this off my chest. I apologize for the length of this text.
I have been corresponding with my lady since early May now and I have felt more and more confident that we will actually meet like we have discussed. Nothing has indicated so far that she is fake or that she is corresponding with other men (knock on wood). We correspond every two or three days (that is what I have time for right now) and write short emails in Chinese as well.
I only have one problem. From the very beginning she has been sending me studio pictures. We talked early on about meeting via webcam and talking on the phone. She seemed very eager to do it. Then she said that since the agency is so far away and she would like to have an interpreter with her the first time we meet on a webcam, maybe we should wait. I was disappointed but accepted that she was shy. I asked for her phone number and she replied that her phone didn't have an international service so I could not call her. I asked for her number again and said that I wanted to try anyway, I could send a text message and we would both see if she received it or not. No reply.
I have kept asking for REAL pictures of her, she has kept replying that she does not have a camera. I suggested that maybe she could use her phone to take some pictures. She replied that the quality would be bad and when I told her I didn't care about the pixel quality she finally sent me two pictures (apparently not taken with a phone but with an ordniary camera). I was very happy and thought that maybe she had borrowed a camera from a friend. But no, she suddenly "found" the pictures in her computer.
I sent her a hand written letter in Chinese. She was very happy and excited when she got it and took two photos of it. So suddenly she has got a camera now? About the webcam suggestion: She lives in a dormitory at her company but has a computer in her room which she uses to send the letters to the agency. So what is the problem? She apparently has a camera at her disposal and she does have her own computer, still she is not willing do to anything else but write EMF letters and emails. I keep sending her pictures of me but I never get anything back (she send romantic pictures and music but honestly I would prefer pictures of her, not hearts and flowers).
I have thought about these issues more and more and to be honest, I am pretty disappointed. I understand that she is shy. But if she can't even send me pictures because of it, what will happen when we finally meet (trip scheduled for December)? Will she hide behind a tree? As a student going to China is a big economic commitment for me. I don't want to go there not feeling entirely commited to her. If I am going in December, I would like to have more certainty about this woman. Letters are not enough. Just like a girl said to me recently: "People can write anything in letters, it's easy to write I love you. A child can do that."
She has sent me a "gift" in the mail, it would take up to two weeks to arrive so I am waiting to see what it is before I decide anything drastic. But right now, I feel the spirit is slowly fading away (the first sign is that the letters are harder to write).
Hello Hans
I have just read your thread and all post from other brothers . Yes, you are a young guy , but you know many our brothers have young heart here , We were born in the same period , but we can communicate with other brothers very well , because we come here and talk to each other with our young and honest heart , It seems all of brothers are very young at heart , haha I think age is just a state of mind , you will be always young when you have the passion for life ,right ?
Well , speaking of your questions , I noticed that you have received the gift of your lady , that sounds great . As for the natural pictures and webcam , other brothers's words are right , firstly, some person don't want to show their real face ,because they are afraid that you will not like their real faces . Secondly , their poor English . Thirdly , the girl think you are not the right person for her , so this is a excuse . Fourthly , the issue of translator and agency . You said it is difficult for your girl to have a webcam meeting , because there is a long way .right ?
Hans, you would better continue to ask the natural pictures of the girl if it is really difficult for her to find the webcab . If you think the girl is right for you when you see her natural picture , maybe you can consider your China trip , yes, I know you are studying in the school ,but you have right to find your love as our other brothers ,if you still want to come to China , I will give you my suggestions for an economical way for you , I will use my resources to help you arrange your trip , I just hope you will not miss your girl . Of course , this happens before you know your girl better , if she is not right for you ,don't worry ,I know some honest ladies who really want to find their life partner , Maybe I can introduce some right person for you . haha . anyway, you are still young and there must be a right person who is waiting for you in the world .
By the way , I read a lot of the words of mandarin and cantonese here from our brothers . Do you want to study Mandarin in China ? When ?
Truly speaking , it is easy to recognize the Mandarin and Cantonese . I want to tell you and all brothers here , Mandarin is the offical language in China , most of the Chinese people (undertand Mandarin though some place has their own dialects . Usually speaking , China has seven main big dialects ,including Mandarin and Cantonese . But China government advocate the Mandarin as offical languages , the students learn mandarin from their primary school , so now most of the Chinese people can understand Mandarin rather than cantonese . Cantonese another dialect ,it is popula in Guangdong provinces ,includes Hong Kong , Macao and other Chinese people in south asia . We also call Shanghai dialect Wu dialect , it is usually popular in Shanghai and Jiangsu provinces , so brothers , now you can understand that most the Chinese people understand Mandarin, but it is difficult for the Chinese people who are not from Guangdong and Shanghai understand Cantonese and Shanghai dialects . I also study western language and culture and know you also have dialects , I meet many foreigners from many countries of the world . Really nice to talk to them , I am sure our world is great just because of the great difference ,right ? Hope we can exchange more in the near future .
Anyway , it seems that I talked a lot , hope that will not bother you and all brothers , spirt can not be fading , but rising , because world is great , right ? Good luck ! :heart:
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Chinese Knot - do Shanghai people speak a dialect of Mandarin? If so why do other Chinese find it difficult to speak the language there? I am interested because my lady's mother lived in Shanghai until she was 5, but apparently she can't speak the Shanghai dialect.
I am a bit disppointed by this, because if I eventually moved to China then I would prefer to live somewhere near the sea and with a climate that isn't too sub-tropical. Shanghai appeared to fit the bill, but if my lady can't speak the language it's probably a bit of a non-starter :huh:.
Actually, I'm not sure that in the West we have dialects of English. Sure, Americans and British have different words for things, but we can generally communicate with no problems. What we do have is accents - American and British accents are quite different. Then within countries we have made different accents. In New York, the strong Brooklyn accent of the subway drivers was obvious! In the UK, the different regions have different accents. Even within the UK an experienced listener such as myself can tell if somebody from the west country is from Bristol or Plymouth.
The UK does have a minority population that speaks Welsh or Cornish, but I guess these are completely different languages rather than dialects.
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My Ling can understand Shanghai people just fine, she's only been there before on vacation.
I dunno if its them speaking Mandarin with a Shanghai accent but i do recall one time on the monorail in Kuala Lumpur there was a bunch of Chinese people chatting and she told me they were from Shanghai. So it would seem its not a totally different language like French or German ???
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Brett,
What he's saying is that Shanghai or the Wu dialect is a different language to Mandarin. But they and everyone else, from the time that Mandarin was made the official language of China, can speak and understand Mandarin and Simplified Chinese writing.
I would imagine when they speak Mandarin, it will be with an accent, i suppose being similar to the accent difference of say, a Londoner and Northerner in the UK.
So all it means is that you get used to the way that they speak Mandarin in that area where you want to live. That will apply to most areas where they had or spoke a different language/dialect before Mandarin became the official Language of China. Probably due to the different tonal sounds between the different languages/dialects..... For sure, they will be able to understand your classical Mandarin!!
David....
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Nina spoke Mandarin the whole time I was there. I never asked if she speaks or can understand Cantonese. Nina lives in Zhongshan though spent most of her life in Guangzhou but was born in Yunan province (not sure what dialect/language is spoken there). I was surprised and impressed that the mandarin I had been studying is the mandarin that she speaks. We did a lot of "what's this in English/Chinese" while I was there, though she refused to tell me what the Chinese word for breasts was. /sigh I could also pick the odd word out that I recognized while she talked.
From what I've heard, the Mandarin spoken in Beijing only differs slightly from the Mandarin spoken anywhere else. It's more of an accent. That's just what I've heard though. Can anyone confirm?
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Neil,
Confirmed!!......
David....
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I don't know you Guy's , that would be on the bottom of my list . If it feels good , why ask what it's called ? haha
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Hello Brett here
Yes, I think it is easier for Shanghai people speak Mandarin , but Shanghai Dialect is different from Mandarin , the accent is very different . Because our government advocate Mandarin as the official language and we learn ,read in Mandarin in the school , so most of Chinese people can speak Mandarin though some of them have their own dialects . It is normal that your lady's mother can not speak the Shanghai dialect , maybe this is related to her working and living environment , but maybe some words of her Mandarin has some accent of Shanghai dialect , if you listen carefully , it is very interesting to listen Shanghai dialect .
Please don't be disappointed , because most the Chinese people speak Mandarin , even though you move to Shanghai , it is also easy for you and the lady to live and work there as long as you understand Mandarin . What's more, Shanghai is an international city and more and more people can speak English , so please have more confidence for your future life . Anyway , you can learn more Mandarin later . Good Luck ! :heart:
Chinese Knot - do Shanghai people speak a dialect of Mandarin? If so why do other Chinese find it difficult to speak the language there? I am interested because my lady's mother lived in Shanghai until she was 5, but apparently she can't speak the Shanghai dialect.
I am a bit disppointed by this, because if I eventually moved to China then I would prefer to live somewhere near the sea and with a climate that isn't too sub-tropical. Shanghai appeared to fit the bill, but if my lady can't speak the language it's probably a bit of a non-starter :huh:.
Actually, I'm not sure that in the West we have dialects of English. Sure, Americans and British have different words for things, but we can generally communicate with no problems. What we do have is accents - American and British accents are quite different. Then within countries we have made different accents. In New York, the strong Brooklyn accent of the subway drivers was obvious! In the UK, the different regions have different accents. Even within the UK an experienced listener such as myself can tell if somebody from the west country is from Bristol or Plymouth.
The UK does have a minority population that speaks Welsh or Cornish, but I guess these are completely different languages rather than dialects.
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From what I've heard, the Mandarin spoken in Beijing only differs slightly from the Mandarin spoken anywhere else. It's more of an accent. That's just what I've heard though. Can anyone confirm?
I've talked to foreigners studying Mandarin in China (in Beijing, Shanghai and Chengdu) and read books written by Swedes who've lived in China for years and they've all said the same: the Mandarin spoken in Beijing is very different from the Mandarin spoken in other parts of China (the Beijing dialect is especially famous for it's "rrr"s at the end of the words and sentences). You could call it different accents, yes, but the differences are bigger than the differences wou'll find in the English language (for instance British, Irish and Australian English). People actually have a hard time understanding each other because they pronounce the words so differently.
As a novice, can understand the Beijing putonghua (if people talk slowly and use simple words) but I would probably have a much harder time if I tried to follow a discussion between two Chinese talking Shanghai dialect. I guess I will learn this the hard way when I visit China next time (I will probably go to Hangzhou-Shanghai-Suzhou for vacation next year no matter what happens to the lady and me).
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Han's,
It's more of a broad accent that your talking about here, maybe more similar to that of a Londoner to a Geordie ( Newcastle Area ) or a broader Scottish accent. It only takes a short while to get used to the differences.
I wouldn't say that the Chinese from outside of Beijing would have a hard time understanding the spoken Mandarin, certainly not after a very short while of listening to it. Anyone learning classical Mandarin will be understood anywhere in China by the vast majority of it's people including Beijing. Maybe only the very old who have never had any formal teaching in Mandarin, and still rely heavily on the language of there region, such as Shanghainese, Cantonese and the like.
By the way, your choices of different English accents were not good candidates of what you were trying to say. Australian, Canadian, New Zealand, Northern Ireland, are all pretty light accents, the Irish being the broadest of the bunch. Scottish and Geordie are much broader and really does take some minutes to catch what's being said. But even then, if they know your not from those parts of UK, they can quickly speak to you in a form you would understand without any difficulty. Which as far as i'm being told by my better half is exactly what happens in broad accented China....
David....
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Han's,
It's more of a broad accent that your talking about here, maybe more similar to that of a Londoner to a Geordie ( Newcastle Area ) or a broader Scottish accent. It only takes a short while to get used to the differences.
I wouldn't say that the Chinese from outside of Beijing would have a hard time understanding the spoken Mandarin, certainly not after a very short while of listening to it. Anyone learning classical Mandarin will be understood anywhere in China by the vast majority of it's people including Beijing. Maybe only the very old who have never had any formal teaching in Mandarin, and still rely heavily on the language of there region, such as Shanghainese, Cantonese and the like.
By the way, your choices of different English accents were not good candidates of what you were trying to say. Australian, Canadian, New Zealand, Northern Ireland, are all pretty light accents, the Irish being the broadest of the bunch. Scottish and Geordie are much broader and really does take some minutes to catch what's being said. But even then, if they know your not from those parts of UK, they can quickly speak to you in a form you would understand without any difficulty. Which as far as i'm being told by my better half is exactly what happens in broad accented China....
David....
Well, even though I've been to China three times I have not been speaking more than a few words while being there so I can only tell you what people who does speak Mandarin have told me and what I have read from foreigners living there and studying the language for years in China. I have also talked to Chinese teachers at my university about this. Some people have compared the different accents to the differences between some European languages (like Swedish, German, Dutch and Danish). If you know Swedish, you can understand Danish reasonably well and if you know a little German you can understand the big picture of what is being said in Dutch - if it is a clear and simple accent and not some strange local crap. Many words and phrases are similiar. It is not a perfect example but it does illustrate what people have told me about the differences among Chinese accents. But then again, I can't verify this myself. Yet.
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Han's .
If it was as different as your suggesting, then there would be a hell of a language problem in China between the different provinces and regions. The reality is, that the Chinese are migrating between various regions without such big language problems.... I guess that was the general original idea when they chose Mandarin to be the single /official language of China, and Simplified Chinese to be the official written language.
David....
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Han's .
If it was as different as your suggesting, then there would be a hell of a language problem in China between the different provinces and regions. The reality is, that the Chinese are migrating between various regions without such big language problems.... I guess that was the general original idea when they chose Mandarin to be the single /official language of China, and Simplified Chinese to be the official written language.
David....
Well, if you're Chinese and speak the language fluently you can always use other words to explain what you mean. And you can of course use the trick of writing the character in your hand, that usually works too.
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Han's,
Sorry, i thought that was what we were talking about, the general Chinese population and there use of Mandarin. Sure for a foreigner it's going to make it that little more difficult, but i think the classical Mandarin that you are learning will serve you well enough where ever you find yourself in China....
Oh and well done for learning Mandarin, ..... i'm afraid to say, i never got very far with it at all. Can't teach an old dog new tricks is my only excuse...hahaha!!
David....
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David,
Like I said, I can't verify anything myself since I didn't speak any Chinese when I visited China the past few years. However, I met a Chinese girl today and we decided to become study partners (she'll help me with my Chinese and I'll help her with her English and Swedish). She has been traveling a lot in China (and other countries) and told me the same: it is hard to understand the different local dialects even for her.
As for me, I have barely scraped the surface. I know about 300+ characters which is basically nothing. Don't blame your age, haha. We have several 50+ and 60+ men and women in our Chinese class. Just prepare to put a LOT of time and energy into it. Then you will be the king of Mandarin soon! :icon_cheesygrin:
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Han's
I have tried, i really have, ...just couldn't get my head round it all. I've probably learnt, or picked up more of the Spoken Mandarin since being with Lucy than the previous 7 years i was in China. I would say i have a vocabulary of about 80 to 100 words, which has actually served me quite well so far. But even Lucy says i'm a lost cause for learning Chinese, but she still tries to teach me words for this and that!! ...haha!!
I am convinced, you have an ability to learn languages or you don't, those that don't, will get by with what they can pick-up from here and there, and probably benefit most from living in that country. Where people like Lucy seem to pick languages up very easily. She has lived here in Cyprus for a year, and without any formal training whatsoever, can hold simple conversations with the locals in there native Cypriot Greek. Me, i know about 30 to 40 words, that's it!! haha!! But Hey, about 90% of the people here speak English, so what's the point in learning Greek?? haha!! She speaks fluent English, (and i do mean fluent) and does pretty well in French and German. According to Lucy, she can speak 4 of the Chinese languages/dialects and can understand most of the others. ....Don't ya just hate these clever cows?? hahaha!!
We keep getting confused between dialects and accents. if your talking about a dialect as being a different language yes your right. If your talking about dialect as being an accent of Mandarin then you shouldn't have too much trouble understanding it, and with those understanding you with your classic Mandarin.
Even talking about it, ....is now getting me confused!! ...haha!!
David.....
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David5o, you're right, some people have ability for learning languages. I don't think I have that ability (although I have a gift for computer programming languages, and I find I pick up new ones incredibly quickly!). I know more Japanese than Chinese, and after two trips to Japan and watching a bucketful of anime I could begin to figure out things like the various politeness levels.
A guy I work with has a Chinese wife, and yet still he only knows about 70 hanzi characters. I don't know what his spoken language is like, but I think she's been living in the UK for a while so her English will be good. I will question him over a beer one lunchtime to find out everything he knows!
I am looking forward to learning some Mandarin though. There are many Chinese students in work, and I will love to be able to eavesdrop. Although I guess they're probably talking about mundane stuff... "that lecture was soooo boring", "I need to buy more eggs in Tescos"... :icon_confused:
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Hans,
Just looking at your concerns about the lack of photos from your lady. My suggestion is don't worry about it. You've received 2 natural photos that she found on her PC, and those will show you how she looks compared to her studio pics. If you still like what you see, then bite your tongue and accept this is the way she is. Different people, different culture...
I had the same issue with my lady, and eventually received 1 (and much later a further 2). Those later ones made me wonder what I was doing, yet when I visited her last month she was beautiful. Some people simply don't like giving out pics of themselves. Yours is one of them. Accept it. The same goes for a webcam session, especially when she also has to travel 400km for it!
You received a great gift. She's interested. In my opinion, you should make the trip.
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I received what i thought was natural photos of the lady i came to China for. But oh what a shock i received when she turned up at the hotel.
anyone who has seen the comparisons I put on this forum will know what i am talking about. Maybe the natural photo's I received were of her younger sister who has the same look about her but is really good looking unlike the elder sister.
All I am saying is be prepared for anything in your dealings.
I keep saying this but no matter how often you speak on phone, write on messanger, qq, see each other on webcam or which other method of contact you use the only contact that really counts is that first day meeting face to face.
Willy
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BTW, it is good to see a younger poster here. I am 30 years old (younger than most here it seems) and also studying Mandarin (although you sound like you are far better than me), I can sort of relate to your situation.
Likewise! Yeah, I guess we are among the younger ones here. "Too young to settle down" is something I've heard for some time now... :icon_cool: However, I have friends who are younger than me and married.
So have you studied Mandarin in China or in your homecountry only?
Wish you luck with it all!
A guy I work with has a Chinese wife, and yet still he only knows about 70 hanzi characters. I don't know what his spoken language is like, but I think she's been living in the UK for a while so her English will be good. I will question him over a beer one lunchtime to find out everything he knows!
They probably talk English only then, 70 characters is enough to order a meal at a restaurant and say which country you are from. That's basically it. I study half time so we learn about 30-40 characters every week (but after a while, some characters keep coming back and I thank God for that) and then we have review weeks now and then.
I received what i thought was natural photos of the lady i came to China for. But oh what a shock i received when she turned up at the hotel.
anyone who has seen the comparisons I put on this forum will know what i am talking about. Maybe the natural photo's I received were of her younger sister who has the same look about her but is really good looking unlike the elder sister.
All I am saying is be prepared for anything in your dealings.
I keep saying this but no matter how often you speak on phone, write on messanger, qq, see each other on webcam or which other method of contact you use the only contact that really counts is that first day meeting face to face.
Willy
My God. This is the absolute nightmare. :s In which thread did you tell the story, Willy?
That is partly why I am being a pain in the ass and asking my lady for more pictures all the time. She has sent me five real ones in total of which three are pictures of her only. I still think it is more attractive if the lady really want to send me pictures, I shouldn't have to ask for it again and again.
And yes, I believe you are perfectly right: it all comes down to that first meeting IRL. I met a Chinese girl here in Stockholm the other day (she contacted me on Chinese Love Links). She was actually more beautiful in real life than her pictures revealed. When you meet it is not just about looks, it is about body language, smile and behavior in general. And before you ask, she is my "study buddy" and nothing else. :icon_cool: