When the spirit is fading

[Hans]

From what I've heard, the Mandarin spoken in Beijing only differs slightly from the Mandarin spoken anywhere else.  It's more of an accent.  That's just what I've heard though.  Can anyone confirm?

I've talked to foreigners studying Mandarin in China (in Beijing, Shanghai and Chengdu) and read books written by Swedes who've lived in China for years and they've all said the same: the Mandarin spoken in Beijing is very different from the Mandarin spoken in other parts of China (the Beijing dialect is especially famous for it's "rrr"s at the end of the words and sentences). You could call it different accents, yes, but the differences are bigger than the differences wou'll find in the English language (for instance British, Irish and Australian English). People actually have a hard time understanding each other because they pronounce the words so differently.

As a novice,  can understand the Beijing putonghua (if people talk slowly and use simple words) but I would probably have a much harder time if I tried to follow a discussion between two Chinese talking Shanghai dialect. I guess I will learn this the hard way when I visit China next time (I will probably go to Hangzhou-Shanghai-Suzhou for vacation next year no matter what happens to the lady and me).

[David5o]

Han's,


It's more of a broad accent that your talking about here, maybe more similar to that of a Londoner to a Geordie ( Newcastle Area ) or a broader Scottish accent. It only takes a short while to get used to the differences.

I wouldn't say that the Chinese from outside of Beijing would have a hard time understanding the spoken Mandarin, certainly not after a very short while of listening to it.  Anyone learning classical Mandarin will be understood anywhere in China by the vast majority of it's people including Beijing.  Maybe only the very old who have never had any formal teaching in Mandarin, and still rely heavily on the language of there region, such as Shanghainese, Cantonese and the like.

By the way, your choices of different English accents were not good candidates of what you were trying to say.  Australian, Canadian, New Zealand, Northern Ireland, are all pretty light accents, the Irish being the broadest of the bunch. Scottish and Geordie are much broader and really does take some minutes to catch what's being said. But even then, if they know your not from those parts of UK, they can quickly speak to you in a form you would understand without any difficulty. Which as far as i'm being told by my better half is exactly what happens in broad accented China....

David....

[Hans]

Han's,


It's more of a broad accent that your talking about here, maybe more similar to that of a Londoner to a Geordie ( Newcastle Area ) or a broader Scottish accent. It only takes a short while to get used to the differences.

I wouldn't say that the Chinese from outside of Beijing would have a hard time understanding the spoken Mandarin, certainly not after a very short while of listening to it.  Anyone learning classical Mandarin will be understood anywhere in China by the vast majority of it's people including Beijing.  Maybe only the very old who have never had any formal teaching in Mandarin, and still rely heavily on the language of there region, such as Shanghainese, Cantonese and the like.

By the way, your choices of different English accents were not good candidates of what you were trying to say.  Australian, Canadian, New Zealand, Northern Ireland, are all pretty light accents, the Irish being the broadest of the bunch. Scottish and Geordie are much broader and really does take some minutes to catch what's being said. But even then, if they know your not from those parts of UK, they can quickly speak to you in a form you would understand without any difficulty. Which as far as i'm being told by my better half is exactly what happens in broad accented China....

David....

Well, even though I've been to China three times I have not been speaking more than a few words while being there so I can only tell you what people who does speak Mandarin have told me and what I have read from foreigners living there and studying the language for years in China. I have also talked to Chinese teachers at my university about this. Some people have compared the different accents to the differences between some European languages (like Swedish, German, Dutch and Danish). If you know Swedish, you can understand Danish reasonably well and if you know a little German you can understand the big picture of what is being said in Dutch - if it is a clear and simple accent and not some strange local crap. Many words and phrases are similiar. It is not a perfect example but it does illustrate what people have told me about the differences among Chinese accents. But then again, I can't verify this myself. Yet.

[David5o]

Han's .

If it was as different as your suggesting, then there would be a hell of a language problem in China between the different provinces and regions. The reality is, that the Chinese are migrating between various regions without such big language problems.... I guess that was the general original idea when they chose Mandarin to be the single /official language of China, and Simplified Chinese to be the official written language.

David....

[Hans]

Han's .

If it was as different as your suggesting, then there would be a hell of a language problem in China between the different provinces and regions. The reality is, that the Chinese are migrating between various regions without such big language problems.... I guess that was the general original idea when they chose Mandarin to be the single /official language of China, and Simplified Chinese to be the official written language.

David....

Well, if you're Chinese and speak the language fluently you can always use other words to explain what you mean. And you can of course use the trick of writing the character in your hand, that usually works too.

[David5o]

Han's,

Sorry, i thought that was what we were talking about, the general Chinese population and there use of Mandarin. Sure for a foreigner it's going to make it that little more difficult, but i think the classical Mandarin that you are learning will serve you well enough where ever  you find yourself in China....
Oh and well done for learning Mandarin, ..... i'm afraid to say, i never got very far with it at all. Can't teach an old dog new tricks is my only excuse...hahaha!!

David....

[Hans]

David,

Like I said, I can't verify anything myself since I didn't speak any Chinese when I visited China the past few years. However, I met a Chinese girl today and we decided to become study partners (she'll help me with my Chinese and I'll help her with her English and Swedish). She has been traveling a lot in China (and other countries) and told me the same: it is hard to understand the different local dialects even for her.

As for me, I have barely scraped the surface. I know about 300+ characters which is basically nothing. Don't blame your age, haha. We have several 50+ and 60+ men and women in our Chinese class. Just prepare to put a LOT of time and energy into it. Then you will be the  king of Mandarin soon! :icon_cheesygrin:

[David5o]

Han's

I have tried, i really have, ...just couldn't get my head round it all. I've probably learnt, or picked up more of the Spoken Mandarin since being with Lucy than the previous 7 years i was in China. I would say i have a vocabulary of about  80 to 100 words, which has actually served me quite well so far. But even Lucy says i'm a lost cause for learning Chinese, but she still tries to teach me words for this and that!! ...haha!!


I am convinced, you have an ability to learn languages or you don't, those that don't, will get by with what they can pick-up from here and there, and probably benefit most from living in that country. Where people like Lucy seem to pick languages up very easily. She has lived here in Cyprus for a year, and without any formal training whatsoever, can hold simple conversations with the locals in there native Cypriot Greek. Me, i know about 30 to 40 words, that's it!!  haha!! But Hey, about 90% of the people here speak English, so what's the point in learning Greek?? haha!!  She speaks fluent English, (and i do mean fluent) and does pretty well in French and German.  According to Lucy, she can speak 4 of the Chinese languages/dialects and can understand most of the others. ....Don't ya just hate these clever cows??  hahaha!!

We keep getting confused between dialects and accents. if your talking about a dialect as being a different language yes your right. If your talking about dialect as being an accent of Mandarin then you shouldn't have too much trouble understanding it, and with those understanding you with your classic Mandarin.  

Even talking about it, ....is now getting me confused!! ...haha!!

David.....

[brett]

David5o, you're right, some people have ability for learning languages. I don't think I have that ability (although I have a gift for computer programming languages, and I find I pick up new ones incredibly quickly!). I know more Japanese than Chinese, and after two trips to Japan and watching a bucketful of anime I could begin to figure out things like the various politeness levels.

A guy I work with has a Chinese wife, and yet still he only knows about 70 hanzi characters. I don't know what his spoken language is like, but I think she's been living in the UK for a while so her English will be good. I will question him over a beer one lunchtime to find out everything he knows!

I am looking forward to learning some Mandarin though. There are many Chinese students in work, and I will love to be able to eavesdrop. Although I guess they're probably talking about mundane stuff... "that lecture was soooo boring", "I need to buy more eggs in Tescos"... :icon_confused:

[chuffd]

Hans,

Just looking at your concerns about the lack of photos from your lady. My suggestion is don't worry about it. You've received 2 natural photos that she found on her PC, and those will show you how she looks compared to her studio pics. If you still like what you see, then bite your tongue and accept this is the way she is. Different people, different culture...

I had the same issue with my lady, and eventually received 1 (and much later a further 2). Those later ones made me wonder what I was doing, yet when I visited her last month she was beautiful. Some people simply don't like giving out pics of themselves. Yours is one of them. Accept it. The same goes for a webcam session, especially when she also has to travel 400km for it!

You received a great gift. She's interested. In my opinion, you should make the trip.

[Willy The Londoner]

I received what i thought was natural photos of the lady i came to China for.  But oh what a shock i received when she turned up at the hotel.
 anyone who has seen the comparisons I put on this forum will know what i am talking about.  Maybe the natural photo's I received  were of her younger sister who has the same look about her but is really good looking unlike the elder sister.

All I am saying is be prepared for anything in your dealings.  

I keep saying this but no matter how often you speak on phone, write on messanger, qq,  see each other on webcam or which other method of contact you use the only contact that really counts is that first day meeting face to face.  

Willy

[Hans]

BTW, it is good to see a younger poster here. I am 30 years old (younger than most here it seems) and also studying Mandarin (although you sound like you are far better than me), I can sort of relate to your situation.

Likewise! Yeah, I guess we are among the younger ones here. "Too young to settle down" is something I've heard for some time now... :icon_cool: However, I have friends who are younger than me and married.

So have you studied Mandarin in China or in your homecountry only?

Wish you luck with it all!

A guy I work with has a Chinese wife, and yet still he only knows about 70 hanzi characters. I don't know what his spoken language is like, but I think she's been living in the UK for a while so her English will be good. I will question him over a beer one lunchtime to find out everything he knows!

They probably talk English only then, 70 characters is enough to order a meal at a restaurant and say which country you are from. That's basically it. I study half time so we learn about 30-40 characters every week (but after a while, some characters keep coming back and I thank God for that) and then we have review weeks now and then.

I received what i thought was natural photos of the lady i came to China for.  But oh what a shock i received when she turned up at the hotel.
 anyone who has seen the comparisons I put on this forum will know what i am talking about.  Maybe the natural photo's I received  were of her younger sister who has the same look about her but is really good looking unlike the elder sister.

All I am saying is be prepared for anything in your dealings.  

I keep saying this but no matter how often you speak on phone, write on messanger, qq,  see each other on webcam or which other method of contact you use the only contact that really counts is that first day meeting face to face.  

Willy

My God. This is the absolute nightmare. :s In which thread did you tell the story, Willy?

That is partly why I am being a pain in the ass and asking my lady for more pictures all the time. She has sent me five real ones in total of which three are pictures of her only. I still think it is more attractive if the lady really want to send me pictures, I shouldn't have to ask for it again and again.

And yes, I believe you are perfectly right: it all comes down to that first meeting IRL. I met a Chinese girl here in Stockholm the other day (she contacted me on Chinese Love Links). She was actually more beautiful in real life than her pictures revealed. When you meet it is not just about looks, it is about body language, smile and behavior in general. And before you ask, she is my "study buddy" and nothing else. :icon_cool: