Hubei Province, October 2009

[David5o]

Brett,

Seems to me, that you have a very high opinion of yourself and your worth!! You are completely wound up in what you want, and with little regard to what your lady wants. Well Brett it's very much a two way street when looking for a life long partnership, so if you are under any preconceived notion, that your wants are more important and come before any wants of your lady, then you'll always going to be on the losing side...

Brett, how can you say i'm ONLY 37 and your lady is ONLY 30?? I would think that is ample years under the belt (so to speak) to know what your looking for in a partner and to know how to get it!!
I can also assure you, that your lady is anything but naive!!

Most of the things your bringing up now that your home, could have been brought up and discussed and sorted out with your lady while you were there!! If you weren't happy with the lack of intimacy, that also could have been brought up and discussed. Your the man here Brett, it's was really down to you to initiate any closeness between you both, not her!!  If the only places you tried to initiate closeness was in public, then more fool you, because they will not be easy with that at all, and that is something you should have known about!!  If you weren't happy with her talking to her friends all the time while you were together, you should have put your foot down and told her to turn the bloody thing off, not wait till you get home and start gripping about it!!

Seems to me, that you make contradicting statements from one day to the next. Why don't you take a few days off and think about things, to come up with definitive outlook on your future, because changing your mind every few hours ain't gonna get you anywhere in this life!!

Through my observations on your threads, there have been many members that have given you, or have tried to give you lots of advise on many issues that you have brought up. To date, i don't think you have listened to a word anyone has said to you. Instead you are still asking the same questions and coming out with the same statements!! ...why??

All of us here want to help you Brett, but you also have to want to help yourself too!!!  Take a few days off, and get your head straight, and come back knowing what your next move will be!!!!

David....

[brett]

Yes Willy is right. I am questioning this girl's commitment to me. That is the only major doubt that I have. And it is a gigantic one to have.

But I am right to do so. Bringing her to the UK will cost every penny I have. If I divorce her, the chances of her starting a family with somebody else are very slim. If I get in trouble with immigration then I can kiss goodbye the chance of ever finding another. We both need to be 100% committed to this. I do not want a wife who will spend all my money and talk all night to her friends on QQ. But sadly that is the impression I am starting to get.

I know that I love her, and that is what makes this especially hard. It is not a question of thinking I can find somebody better. I'm not sure that I can or even that I want to.

But her lack of affection towards me is worrying. I saw plenty of Chinese couples holding hands etc. in public. My lady was not at all bothered by being seen with a Westerner.

So something doesn't add up. Either she doesn't love me. Or she is naive and doesn't know how to show affection towards a man. Or I don't know how to give her the right signals. I need to find this out.

Rob: The KTV is a private booth, so it is not in public. I saw plenty of couples holding hands in public, so this is an urban myth. She was QQ'ing from my PC not her phone. I am not convinced by the parents approval thing - what if they are pressurising her into something she doesn't want? How do I even know what they think about me - they don't speak a word of English.

My EMF will be hard on her. But if she is not committed to this then I have to end it quickly.

[brett]

Hmm, I am thinking. I am still in the 24 hour period. My EMF remains unsent. My lady's idea of a fiancee visa is an excellent one. I will get her over here. We can then take things slowly and really decide if we are really right for each other :fi_lone_ranger:. Thanks for all the various comments though, this is a big thing to do and nobody said it was going to be easy.
I have now sent my EMF. I have decided my lady doesn't need to know too much about my concerns. We need to spend much more time together, QQ and Skype is not good enough. We will apply for a fiancee visa as that is the only thing that will give us long enough to decide about each other.

[shaun]

:huh::huh::huh::huh::huh::huh::huh::huh::huh::huh:

[JimB]

Brett,  You say you do love her.  How can you have true love without trust? I can really understand a little doubt, hell I had some myself for a while. But it all boiled down to, if i truly love her than i have to trust her.  I can see holding hands in public, but it depends on how she was raised.  My wife took my arm, that is usual for women, holding hands in public is not unusual.  Especially for the younger women. They will sometimes show affection in public. The under 30 crowd.  The over 30's are much more conservative and your lady fits in between, like I said it is how she was raised.  She is 30 years old and doesnt have a child, her chances of marrying are pretty good, but you are right, her parents may be pressuring her.  I have been told by a number of women that their parents pressured them when they hit 30. Yes it is your decision to make, we are just trying to give you the benefit of our experience as you say you have little. Good luck Brett, I hope the decision you make is the right one for you both.

[stuart barlow]

I think im as baffled as shaun,

[victor-hills]

David5o you took the words right out of my mouth mate   (Seems to me, that you have a very high opinion of yourself and your worth!! You are completely wound up in what you want, and with little regard to what your lady wants. Well Brett it's very much a two way street when looking for a life long partnership, so if you are under any preconceived notion, that your wants are more important and come before any wants of your lady, then you'll always going to be on the losing side...)

[David E]

We will apply for a fiancee visa as that is the only thing that will give us long enough to decide about each other.

Brett

I know you are getting bombarded here with masses of advice and also some puzzlement from experienced Bros as to some of the traps you may be falling into !

I am compelled to write this post based on your views about applying for a fiance visa so you can both get to know more about each other.

Your Immigration Department does NOT view the granting of a Fiance visa as a means to simply get your Lady an extended holiday in the UK.

The process you will have to go through to get such a visa is meticulous, intensive, detailed and exhausting. The paperwork is endless. They will require of you that you produce documented PROOF that your relationship is genuine and that you have a defined intent to marry within the time frame specified in the fiance visa.

The Immigration Department will want to see that the application is made from this perspective....they will assume that you have already made the decision to marry. They will get real testy if you dont convince them of that fact with photos, letters, reciepts and endorsement letters from friends and family confirming that your relationship is genuine and ongoing.

It is also going to cost you a fair bit of money. !! and will take somewhere in the order of 9 months to process. Part of this process will be the need for Ms XXX to have an interview with the local Immigration Representatives of your Country. Believe me, they will be very focussed on discovering whether your application is a genuine requirement for a marriage...or just a substitute for a Tourist visa.

Do you  not think that a better way would be for you to make one or two more trips to China to establish exactly what you and Ms XXXX have between you ? I would suggest that this is the best cost option, and certainly gives you chance to get sorted out what sort of relationship you have/want/need with Ms XXX...and her with you the same.

If you go through all the mind numbing process for a Fiance visa and then conclude that you dont want to be together, then you may have burned many bridges with your Immigration Department for any future applications you may make.

This is another strategy you may wish to consider !!!

DavidE

[Paul Todd]

Hi Brett,

From the UK side this is what they need:-

Fiancé Visa

You may come to U.K as fiancé or proposed civil partner of someone, if both of you are aged 21 or over and he/she currently lives in the United Kingdom and settled there; or is returning to the United Kingdom with you to live there permanently.

You must show that:

You plan to marry or register a civil partnership within a reasonable time (usually six months);
You plan to live together permanently after you are married or have registered a civil partnership;
You have met each other;
Until you are married or have registered a civil partnership, there is somewhere for you and any dependants to live
You and any dependants can be supported without working or having to get help from public funds.
You must obtain permission to enter the United Kingdom before travelling here, even if you are a national of a country where there is normally no need for a visa to enter the United Kingdom.. It will be in the form of a visa or entry clearance certificate.

Your will need to apply for a certificate of approval of marriage from the Home Office and give notice to a registrar of your intention to marry or register your civil partnership. During this six month period you can not work in the U.K

After you have married or registered your civil partnership, you may apply to stay here. If your application is approved, you will be given permission to live and work in the U.K for two years.  After two year you may apply for Permanent Residence in the U.K

I would drop these guy's an e-mail for good advice and a time scale if this is the route you are planning to take: www.uniquevisaservices.com
Good luck :icon_cheesygrin:

[brett]

Thanks guys. Things are now good between me and my lady.

The fiancee visa route looks a possibility. But the form is very long and intrusive. I am not sure if this is the best way forward, or whether we should get married in China first.

[David E]

Thanks guys. Things are now good between me and my lady.

The fiancee visa route looks a possibility. But the form is very long and intrusive. I am not sure if this is the best way forward, or whether we should get married in China first.

Brett

It is getting very confusing, trying to keep up with your Strategy and trying to give you advice.

Many Bros here have put a lot of time and effort into trying to help you. This is what we do, and its useful to know that the recipient is at least listening. Taking advice is not compulsory of course :icon_cheesygrin:

24 hours ago you were definitely unsure whether Ms XXXX was your correct choice. Now everything is Ok....you seem to fall in and out of love more often than I change my socks !!

Now you ask whether we think you should get married in China "first" because the fiance visa paperwork is a bit daunting. What exactly do you mean by "first"...and what then is "next" ?

I hope you are not under the illusion that if you marry in China then the paperwork gets easier....it sure doesn't.

There are hundreds of references here from Bros who are going through the process....fiance and spouse...from many different Countries. The common thread running through their stories is that it is costly, meticulous, time consuming, frustrating and bloody complex to bring a foreign partner into most Countries...including UK.

It matters not where you get married...it only matters that you MUST go through the process...period...no escape from it !!

Can I say as an experienced Management Consultant that if you were my client I would point out to you that you have got Strategy and Tactics mixed up...and that is highly dangerous.

Tactics are the detailed mechanisms, the whys, hows and wherefores of bringing your wife/fiance into your country.

Strategy is the decision process to completely decide between you both if you are truly in love, if you are truly committed to a long term relationship with a foreign lady...with all the tribulations and challenges that this brings...as you can read about here in droves.

You have sent so many mixed mesages about this situation...take a deep breath and get your Strategy right in your head and heart...and hers. Then start to worry about how to get the paperwork done.

If you want a trial relationship with her, then go to China and do it. If you want more time to decide between you both if you are meant to be...then go to China and find out.

When you both have answered that question...without any doubts...then decide whether spouse or fiance visa is appropriate, get a Lawyer and get on with it. Until you have that question clear...forget about any type of visa...your Immigration Department will spot a fraud or an uncertain relationship from a mile away !!

DavidE

[brett]

Well yes my lady drives me nuts at times. I guess I do the same to her. We are both young and strong willed. We both have demanding jobs. I guess we both eat too much spicy food. I am very organised, she is pretty disorganised. Our relationship isn't going to be all fluffy pillows and flowers. I do not want to marry a shrinking violet - my brother goes for those types of girls and they are not my type at all. But I am getting more convinced that my love for her is real. Yes we have had our differences, but all through this time my love for her has been undiminished.

Guys if your relationship with your Chinese lady is all lovey dovey all of the time then you are exceptionally lucky!

Unfortunately we haven't been able to talk on QQ much this week. Our agency translator seems to have gone off the boil as well, as my questions aren't being answered that well. Although my lady speaks some English (and we communicated pretty well in China), Chinese high schools do not teach the sort of English you need to talk about relationships.

I guess a meeting in Hong Kong early next year is going to be valuable, and we could get engaged there. By January we will have had a chance to talk a lot more about important things.

I am also thinking that a spouse visa would be easier to obtain than a fiancee visa. Neither are easy though as the form is long and intrusive. My lady doesn't want to get married in China, but I should hopefully be able to talk her round to the idea. I know that getting married in China is complicated, but I sure we can figure it out.

I think that we can do nothing until my lady gets a passport, so that might be the first objective.

Fortunately the 24 hour rule has saved our relationship :icon_cheesygrin:.

[mickw]

Brett

I think you will find that an application for a UK visa for either a spouse or fiancee uses the same form and asks for similar documetation whichever situation your in ,ie spouse or fiancee.

David and Paul are 100 % correct in what they say about obtaining a spouse/fiancee or for that matter any type to come to the UK.

You may recall our chat last weekend on the shout box ,and I have for the other brothers info just got a 6 months visitors visa for my lady Linfang ,which took us from the applicatiion date of 28 th August until it was granted last week,approx 6 to 7 weeks.

She has got her ticket to come here for 2 months ,work commitments wont allow anymore time off, on the 22 nd of November until the 23 rd of January .

I have known Linfang since June 2008 on Chnlove,and went and spent 3 weeks with her last March . She wants us to marry when shes here ,but im not sure as yet of the criteria as shes only come here as a visitor ,ill call the registry office next week and check out the situation,if not possible while shes here ,then we will marry when i return to china next year.

We both feel with us both visiting each others respective turf ,so to speak ,its a good sounding out time to see if we can live together ,albeit not long term ,and indeed see what she thinks to life in the UK and her prospective home in the future.

Brett if you do eventually apply for which ever visa you think fit ,you need to be 100% accurate and honest with your documentation ,and supply anything which you feel will support your application ,and tell your lady not to listen to hearsay from any friends or anyone who clains to know about visas to the Uk ,Linfang was told by some local know all that she needed 50,000 RMB in her bank to be even considered for a visa !!!.

I do speak with some authority on spousal /fiancee visas as i went through the procedure for my filipina fiancee way back in 1997,and things ,it appears from the forms ,aint changed much since,back then it took 4 weeks for the visa to be granted ,

Good Luck with your lady ,whichever route you decide

Mike

[Willy The Londoner]

Brett you and your lady are not young - you are 37 and she is nearly 30.   Young is in early 20's.  She is just about past her sell by date in Chinese terms!!!  

Getting married in China is simple - not complicated - just like buying a car tax.   Take the right papers to the post office and you walk out with a car tax to stick on your windshield.

To get married take the right papers with the photos to the marraige office and if they are not busy you will get the little red book the same day - you are married.

I just wonder why there has been a lack of communications between you two since you returned back home!

Willy

I would drop these guy's an e-mail for good advice and a time scale if this is the route you are planning to take: www.uniquevisaservices.com
Good luck :icon_cheesygrin:

I spoke to Raj at this company yesterday - he want £1250 up front to take on a case and to see what else needs to be done!!!!!

Although a London office they are based in India.    Some companies in India has a poor reputation in getting legitimate people into the UK.

Willy

[brett]

Thanks mickw.

I am still undecided about which visa to go for. My lady still lives with her parents and has a so-so job (so no great reason to return to China) - will this count against our fiancee application? Or is my financial empire given more weight?

I think a 3rd option (marrying Hong Kong, then getting a spouse visa) is also possible.

Willy - the main problem I have at the moment is that my lady is working stupid hours in her slave job so we don't have much time to talk. And the EMF translator has really gone off the boil which is frustrating. If we got engaged I would send her money instead of having her working all the time, but for her to give up her job in a bad economy is a big thing for her to do, and we would need to build more trust before she does something like that.

And yes, my lady is almost 30, but she needs a bit more maturity of the kind that you can't really get from still living with your parents :@. I sure hope she continues to wear the T shirts with the teddy bears on though :angel:.