Author Topic: Chinese Salaries  (Read 13743 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline David E

  • David and Ming
  • Board Moderator
  • Registered User
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,653
  • Reputation: 24
  • My favourite photo
RE: Chinese Salaries
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2009, 06:27:34 pm »
Brett

Lets put some facts into the debate about the future of the Chinese economy shall we !

China has a population of 1.3 Billion, and even with their one -child-policy, the nett population growth for the forseeable future, correcting for deaths and natural attrition, will be over 200 million new people to feed, clothe, house and entertain EACH YEAR.

That represents one HELL of a new market for goods and services every year, on, and on and on !!

The West is in the grip of an economic downturn which has reduced the demand for Chinese (and every other ) goods into our markets. But the downturn has not ELIMINATED all demand, so there is still a market for the Chinese products....albeit at a reduced level.

Just as an interesting comparison, Australia is a prime supplier of many raw materials to China, and in the case of iron-ore, all of it comes from my State of Western Australia. Our biggest supplier of Iron-ore to the Chinese market used to ship 14 Bulk ships filled with iron -ore each month (at about 50,000 tonnes each).

Since the downturn, this shipping rate has dropped alarmingly...to 11 ships full !!!!!!!!

So to speak about economic downturns with regard to China gets a bit misleading, because their NETT annual population growth demands an equivalent increase in goods and services equivalent to 10 times the whole population of Australia and about equal to the total population of UK.

This is why in a "stand-still" mode, China will have a demand growth of 8 % per annum....not real bad !!!

What you see in the empty Malls, the idle factories is the pause in the "marginal costed" incremental Business that now waits for natural growth to take it up....admittedly, this will now take somewhat longer than pre-crisis.

But make no mistake...China is not any where near depression - practically or economically and never will be as far into the future as anyone can predict.

Women looking for Western husbands (generally, but there are exceptions of course) are not "economic refugees" looking to rip you off !! They may not have all the things that we covet, but they have a very adequate lifestyle and have a lot to lose by hitching up with a western man...but they also have a lot to gain...when they find their Prince in the West....so treat them carefully...they deserve it.

I apologise to all who are bored to tears with such a "dry" economic post, but it is one thing I am very qualified to comment about ...(wish I knew as much about Chinese Ladies...but i'm learning :icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:)

DavidE
« Last Edit: October 27, 2009, 06:28:26 pm by David E »

Offline maxx

  • Registered User
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,363
  • Reputation: 13
RE: Chinese Salaries
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2009, 06:42:36 pm »
David this is all real interesting to me.I'm learning alot on this thread.

Offline David E

  • David and Ming
  • Board Moderator
  • Registered User
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,653
  • Reputation: 24
  • My favourite photo
RE: Chinese Salaries
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2009, 06:58:56 pm »
Thanks Maxx !!

Now may i bore you all some more on another subject I am qualified to write about !!!

I note that for the first time Brett has raised the issue of Pre-nuptial Agreements in regard to a future Chinese wife.

So far as I am aware from reading everything over the past few months, this has never been raised in any post before.

So some Legal facts for you all to consider......

If anyone thinks that a Pre-nup is a mechanism for protecting yourself from a failed future marriage as way to avoid paying her any of your money...think again...and think carefully !!!!

The Legal purpose of a Pre-nup is to define the asset position of both parties BEFORE the marriage and to define the allocation of any ADDITIONAL assets in the event of a marriage failure.

Unless you are a Movie Star, a Football guru or a Pop-Star, a pre-nup for "normal people" will have no weight in Law.

Simply put...if your partner has no assets (likely so if she is Chinese) and you have assets (likely so if you have a home, superannuation and/or other assets), then the Divorce Courts will assess the division of those assets based on the division of labour inside the marriage. ie. she will claim part of your assets simply by being your wife and "looking after you " !!!

If there are children from the marriage...watch out...!!!! No Pre-nup can ever protect you at Law from being compelled to support your children in a divorce settlement.

If in these circumstances she gets a decent Lawyer, she will get up to 90% of your assets to help with child costs until the child is at least 16 (and maybe older )

The purpose of a pre-nup, that has weight in Law is to define the asset split IF YOU BOTH STARTED WITH ABOUT THE SAME ASSETS. If the difference in the beginning is large...then the pre-nup is worthless when it comes to family Law...Family Law can and will override ANY Pre-Nuptial Agreement...BE WARNED !!

You can pay up to $30,000 for a "good" pre-nup to be constructed by a Lawyer...but it will be worthless unless she brings assets into the marriage along with you.

So please Guys...dont ever think that you can sit safely behind a pre-nup and come out clean if it all goes pear-shaped !!

The moral here...........get it right........

DavidE
« Last Edit: October 27, 2009, 07:00:23 pm by David E »

Offline JimB

  • Registered User
  • ***
  • Posts: 802
  • Reputation: 0
    • http://www.jandyenterprises.com
RE: Chinese Salaries
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2009, 07:40:25 pm »
David E. Please do not misunderstand what i ask.  What are your qualifications for answering this?  I am not being sarcastic or in any way derogatory.  I am just curious as you said you were qualified.
Maxx's 24 hour rule, learn it, live it.

Offline maxx

  • Registered User
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,363
  • Reputation: 13
RE: Chinese Salaries
« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2009, 07:41:28 pm »
I'd also like to add.A pre nup is not a legal or binding document in China.If one of the signers of the prenup.Is a foriegnor.And a halfe descent divorce lawyer.Can get a prenup thrown out of most cases.If the lady is from another country.

Chong has looked into this real well.He is the guy to talk to about prenups.

Offline David E

  • David and Ming
  • Board Moderator
  • Registered User
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,653
  • Reputation: 24
  • My favourite photo
RE: Chinese Salaries
« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2009, 07:47:06 pm »
Quote from: 'JimB' pid='21186' dateline='1256686825'

David E. Please do not misunderstand what i ask.  What are your qualifications for answering this?  I am not being sarcastic or in any way derogatory.  I am just curious as you said you were qualified.


MBA (RMIT) LLB (Durham Uni) Bsc (Chem) ,

(LLB is "Licenciate Bachelorum...ie I have a law Degree but I dont work as a practising Lawyer. MBA is a Master Degree in Business Management). My BSc is in Organic Chemistry)

DavidE
« Last Edit: October 27, 2009, 07:51:43 pm by David E »

Offline Irishman

  • Muireadach and Sunny
  • Registered User
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,806
  • Reputation: 15
    • http://www.chinaromance.net
RE: Chinese Salaries
« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2009, 07:54:51 pm »
Ok, being a nosey nelly, what does the (RMIT) stand for in your masters? (some kind of Information Technology?).
Impressive qualifications, I bet you don't come cheap!
Become the change you want today, or all your tomorrows will be like yesterday.

Offline Jimmy

  • Soon the Family will be Complete.
  • Registered User
  • ***
  • Posts: 341
  • Reputation: 4
  • She Was A Wonderful Wife
    • Jim N Libo
RE: Chinese Salaries
« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2009, 08:07:48 pm »
Great thread gentlemen. Excellent information. Every time I read a thread like this about a country like China or Japan which I was fortunate to visit Japan a few years ago. They compete for jobs all jobs and when they get one they are glad and proud to have it. They take care of the old folks (Like we are all going to be someday).
Americans were similar A COUPLE CENTURYS ago. And now our gov is just made everyone greeedy and stupid.
After reading this I understand more things now, I sent Li pictures of the house, once her mom wanted to see where she might be living. I admit the place being here at the lake is very cool but the house itself is only like 1300ft 3bd 2 ba Typical rental for a big family we were 6 when I moved here.
And in the Pictures of the front of the house you could see my old Truck and Bass boat both over 20 yrs old sitting out there. And to hear what her Moms comments were you would think I was Rich. I thought she was kidding when she wanted to know if we were really the only family living in the house.

Now after reading all this I know she was serious and it appears most of these people work hard for very little and live a pretty good life.
Jimmy Henson

Offline Irishman

  • Muireadach and Sunny
  • Registered User
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,806
  • Reputation: 15
    • http://www.chinaromance.net
RE: Chinese Salaries
« Reply #23 on: October 27, 2009, 08:17:52 pm »
Quote from: 'Jimmy' pid='21192' dateline='1256688468'

After reading this I understand more things now, I sent Li pictures of the house, once her mom wanted to see where she might be living. I admit the place being here at the lake is very cool but the house itself is only like 1300ft 3bd 2 ba Typical rental for a big family we were 6 when I moved here.
And in the Pictures of the front of the house you could see my old Truck and Bass boat both over 20 yrs old sitting out there. And to hear what her Moms comments were you would think I was Rich. I thought she was kidding when she wanted to know if we were really the only family living in the house.

Now after reading all this I know she was serious and it appears most of these people work hard for very little and live a pretty good life.


Jimmy, American houses are huge I think compared to most European standards, dunno about other places.

1300ft is a pretty decent sized house here..and its a detached single family home..by a lake with a boat and truck out front..think about 1 million USD minimum upwards to the sky for something like that here. I bet you actually have a garden that you can mow the lawn and the kids could play in too!

An Irish girl and I bet most UK ones would see $$$ when they saw that not kidding, now ramp that up to an average Chinese persons perspective and you get the picture.
Become the change you want today, or all your tomorrows will be like yesterday.

Offline David E

  • David and Ming
  • Board Moderator
  • Registered User
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,653
  • Reputation: 24
  • My favourite photo
RE: Chinese Salaries
« Reply #24 on: October 27, 2009, 08:36:04 pm »
Quote from: 'Irishman' pid='21189' dateline='1256687691'

Ok, being a nosey nelly, what does the (RMIT) stand for in your masters? (some kind of Information Technology?).
Impressive qualifications, I bet you don't come cheap!


Haha...no I and my colleagues in my Business dont come cheap !!!....but we're worth it :):)

RMIT = Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology...which was where I got my Masters.

However...the best qualifications come from the School of Hard Knocks...LIfe !!!

DavidE

Offline JimB

  • Registered User
  • ***
  • Posts: 802
  • Reputation: 0
    • http://www.jandyenterprises.com
RE: Chinese Salaries
« Reply #25 on: October 27, 2009, 08:43:45 pm »
Yep you are right. I have a 1350 Sq. Ft. condo, 2 Bdrm 2 ba. with walk in closets and a 1.5 car garage.  You would think, according to Mrs. Burk that it was a palace.  What cracked me up was the walk in closets.  She asked me if that was the baby's room.  The other one had all my clothes in it.  Pretty full.  She asked me how many other peoples clothes in there.
Maxx's 24 hour rule, learn it, live it.

Offline Johnboy

  • Johnboy
  • Registered User
  • ***
  • Posts: 102
  • Reputation: 0
RE: Chinese Salaries
« Reply #26 on: October 27, 2009, 10:37:23 pm »
Bravo David!

Absolutely brilliant exposition on the Chinese economy - and I for one was not in the least bit bored by your 'dry' economic post; in fact I was completely enthralled by your contribution to the debate.

I think it's worth adding that China is the ONLY major country in the world with an annual demand growth of 8% and, indeed was the only country to achieve that growth over the past year whilst other 'command economies' languished in recession, which, in some cases, is possibly creeping towards depression.  So, "not real bad"!!!  It's quite incredible - but I think that's what your exclamations were actually saying.  Par excellennce!  It was a pleasure to read it.

Similarly, your critique on Pre-nuptial agreements is completely spot-on; and I assure you this is a subject that I too am very well qualified to comment on and write about.  Fortunately ,you have left me with little to write about as you have, as far as is necessary, written it all!    However, I can say with perfect confidence that what you have written is how it is in law.

Again, two points, one to tighten up, the other to address the moral imperative:

Firstly, On the division of assets and: "she will claim part of your assets simply by being your wife and looking after you."  The issue here is that "in looking after you" your wife has enabled you to be unfettered in seeking financial gain,reward or success.  This is taken by the Courts to be an asset that is brought to the marriage and commands extremely high consideration when Courts make Orders on the division of assets in matrimonial matters.

Secondly, the moral imperative, and I stress that this is purely a personal and very deeply held belief.  Marriage is sacred.  I do not believe that you should even think about marrying someone who you do not love with all your heart and soul.  It follows, therefore, that if you are in that 'state of grace' Pre-nuptial Agreements will not only be repugnant to your thoughts but redundant to your desires.  I have never married but when I finally reach that moment, Pre-nuptial Agreement will not even flicker in the southern hemisphere of my mind.  

Therefore, David, I say with the greatest of respect to you, that I do not think the moral of your piece is "get it right"; but do it right and do it with decency and compassion - especially where it concerns bringing a foreign woman to a country whose culture and customs she knows little of, and who probably feels afraid and isolated from her family and friends.  In these circumstances, in my opinion, a Pre-nuptial Agreement is like having the sword of Damocles hanging over her head.

Lastly, I have gleaned from some of your posts that you consider yourself to be the Forum's cynic.  And I say amen to that, and long may your cynicism light up the Forum's pages - I find your posts thought-provoking, educating and, in the case of these last two, quite awesome!

John
« Last Edit: October 27, 2009, 10:56:20 pm by Johnboy »
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to say nothing.  (Edmund Burke)

Offline David E

  • David and Ming
  • Board Moderator
  • Registered User
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,653
  • Reputation: 24
  • My favourite photo
RE: Chinese Salaries
« Reply #27 on: October 27, 2009, 11:38:47 pm »
John

Thanks for the kind words...I believe that knowlege is power and every scrap of knowlege we can all glean from each other demonstrates to our "Ladies" that we at least know something about her Country and her Culture and that we have given her the respect to take time and effort to learn such !

I take your point about the marriage situation and I for one, totally agree that the thought of a Pre-nup with the love of my life is completely out of the question...however, horses for courses, some other Bros here may feel different and I wanted them to know categorically that it was not a foolproof "get out of Jail freee card " !!!

There fore I am completely happy to change "get it right" into "do it right with sympathy and compassion"

Cheers

DavidE

Offline Johnboy

  • Johnboy
  • Registered User
  • ***
  • Posts: 102
  • Reputation: 0
RE: Chinese Salaries
« Reply #28 on: October 28, 2009, 01:10:16 am »
David

Not kind words but sincerely felt and meant words.  I share your belief that knowledge is power; only a foolish person would fail to understand, or disagree with, that.  I also share your views that we should demonstrate our respect to our ladies by by at least taking the time to learn something about their country, culture and customs.  And in fact I'm doing that now with my princess (well, I hope she will be my princess one day) not to impress her but because I genuinely believe it's right and important to do so.  And it's obvious that she likes the way I insert Chinese words and phrases in my letters to her - and she responds in the same way - and at the same time it gives me a better understanding of her language.  I'm finding it a bit hard going though as Fei (my princess) doesn't think she is any good at  writing letters and in fact agrees with me that she lacks confidence.  I have tried giving her a few gentle tips: take your time, make a list of the things you want to say and the questions you would like to ask, that sort of thing.  But her letters are still relatively short and always start "Dear John" and end "Yours sincerely" - prefaced by "Wish you happy every day!"  Still, I far prefer that to some of the Admirer Mails that get posted here!  Also, there isn't much warmth in her letters, I don't mean WoAi Ni stuff,but the only times when there have been (quasi) affectionate terms I, embarrassingly, discovered (after I had responded in a similar way!) that they were translator fluff.  Oh well, I'll just have to persevere......................  

I know where you were coming from on the marriage situation and the moral of your piece, as I sense that you are a 'sensitive' cynic.  I just could not resist!  Horses for courses for sure, and I'm sure some of the other bros will have a different opinion, I was simply taking the opportunity to state my opinion - in keeping with your Voltaire signature.   What I can not comprehend is why anyone would want to bring their Chinese princess to another country, with all that entails, along with the sanctity of marriage, and have the insensitivity to even think about a Pre-nuptial agreement.  It simply beggars belief!  

I hope you did not misunderstand my intervention and I certainly meant no offence or disrespect to you.  In fact, I have been meaning to thank you for the very good advice you gave me when I posted my angst about Fei's profile refresh.  It really was extremely helpful, so my belated thanks for that.  And, as I have already said, it's an awesome post!

Cheers to you too David.

John
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to say nothing.  (Edmund Burke)

Offline Chong

  • Registered User
  • ***
  • Posts: 771
  • Reputation: 8
RE: Chinese Salaries
« Reply #29 on: October 28, 2009, 01:43:04 am »
http://www.chnlove.info/showthread.php?tid=54

A 'pre-nup' thread was started back in April. Here's the link above ...  The first post there has a section from the Family Relations law in China.

John wroted ...

What I can not comprehend is why anyone would want to bring their Chinese princess to another country, with all that entails, along with the sanctity of marriage, and have the insensitivity to even think about a Pre-nuptial agreement. It simply beggars belief!


First of all, I'm no lawyer. Thanks David & John for mentioning all those points in the above postings. Some of us brothers are bringing lots of assets into a relationship. In my case, these assets belongs to my Corporation. As a separate entity, I view it as a protection. Of course that's open to argument. It's not about insensitivity, it's about financial reality. If the 'shoe was on the other foot', you wouldn't mind signing a pre-nup if your lady asked you, ... or would you ???

Here's a court case where the ruling was on the man's side  ( though he was a dickhead & insensitive ) ...

http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/news/capital_van_isl/story.html?id=57fd8079-d59d-4441-9ee1-54eb8d6acd9e&k=52332

Here's the Aug 8/2007 article  ...

He wooed and married a woman in China but upon returning to Canada decided her immigration was taking too long -- and divorced her.

Joao Americo Serpa was granted his divorce scot-free. Under the judgment, released yesterday in Victoria, Serpa doesn't have to hand over any assets or pay support to his ex-wife, Huang Yueping, even though the judge called his behaviour at times "deplorable."

According to the judgment, Serpa, 63, wrote to Yueping, 52, in early 2003 indicating he was looking for a wife. The two communicated back and forth and in May 2004, Serpa visited her in China.

The two were married in December 2004 and lived together in China for 58 days until Serpa returned to Canada.

In July 2005, Serpa hired an immigration consultant to help Yueping join him in Canada, although he asserted at trial that he had concluded shortly after his return the marriage had been a mistake.

According to Yueping, Serpa told her from 2005 to 2006 that he was completing the paperwork for her to immigrate.

But in March 2006, Yueping learned from a letter sent by the consultant that her husband no longer intended to submit the application for her immigration.

The following month, Serpa himself wrote his wife to say when they married he thought she could "come to Canada soon (quickly) but that is not the case. I'm sorry, I can't wait any longer. I need someone to take care of me now."

In ruling on the case, Justice E. Robert A. Edwards characterized Serpa's lack of candour, particularly his failure to promptly tell Yueping the marriage was over, as lacking in decency, even "deplorable."

But Edwards wrote that the law, as written in the Divorce Act, prevents a court from taking into account misconduct in the marriage.

The Family Relations Act also states a spouse must have use of property for family purposes before it can be divided. Since Yueping never made it to Canada and had no prenuptial agreement, her claim on Serpa's assets was dismissed.

Finally, Yueping failed to provide any medical evidence from China to back up her claim the stress over the uncertainty of her marriage has left her unable to support herself since 2006. So her claim for spousal support was dismissed.

Neither Serpa nor Yueping nor their lawyers could be reached for comment.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2009, 04:01:51 am by Chong »