Trouble in Paradise

[Philip]

I'm glad I didn't panic about red flags and applied the 24-hour rule before finding out the facts. There is something called translation difficulties which can happen when you are corresponding in a different language. The 200000 she was talking about refers to the total amount I am likely to spend from my first visit to China until the time her and her children come to England. Considering that I will be visiting 4 or 5 times in total, having the wedding, getting the visa, arranging flights for her and two children, that figure is probably not far off the mark.
So, I am glad I kept my cool and applied the 24-hour rule. It is one disadvantage to being off the EMFs, but we got it sorted, despite the translation misunderstandings.
200000 has gone down to 0 in terms of what I'm paying to register our marriage. The wedding dinner in April will cost a few pennies more, but I don't think Paris Hilton will want an invite. It will be modest.
Hopefully both me and my lady will be able to get some sleep tonight!

[Vince G]

Personally I would not give any amount until after marriage. I think you have a tiger by the tail here. Careful in your future movements.

[Willy The Londoner]

200000 has gone down to 0 in terms of what I'm paying to register our marriage. The wedding dinner in April will cost a few pennies more, but I don't think Paris Hilton will want an invite. It will be modest.
Hopefully both me and my lady will be able to get some sleep tonight!

The problem you are going to have is growing by the month as more and more of us are taking up residents in China and even if Paris Hilton is not coming we are all expecting an invite cos it looks like it is going to be a real posh wedding.

Willy

[Philip]

Personally I would not give any amount until after marriage. I think you have a tiger by the tail here. Careful in your future movements.

No Vince, as I said the contribution to the wedding has dwindled to a more manageable zero.
But you'd make a good Chinese astrologer. Her Chinese astrological sign is the Tiger. I am a Cat (or Rabbit), so even though I have claws too, I am not going to take this tiger by the tail. I'll probably have to rely on my cleverness, good luck or plain gentleness. Nobody likes having their fur stroked the wrong way, but everybody likes it stroked the right way. Sorry, I seemed to have carried this metaphor a bit too far.

[Philip]

Philip,

No one has said it yet, I believe, but if I were you I would be VERY thankful to have a future brother-in-law that looks out for you like that!

Scott

Thank you for saying that, Scott. As well as saving our marriage before it even started, he is flying from Guangzhou to Changsha for one day, just to meet us. And this from a very busy businessman, who had said before that he was so busy at work that wouldn't be able to see me this trip. That's what I call a good guy and a loyal brother. I would be grateful for any suggestions for a gift I can get for him.

[RegnisTheGreat]

Am I the only one who's still suspicious?

[Danny]

The 200000 she was talking about refers to the total amount I am likely to spend from my first visit to China until the time her and her children come to England.

Philip

I am not sure how consistent this explanation is with what her brother had written to you, and consistent with the way she acted when you told her that you thought that the amount she suggested was excessive.

I think this is a situation where you need to take care to get to know her well and to see what she is really like. This might take some time.

Danny

[David5o]

Whoa!! hold on here, be watchful Yes, but a brother sister conspiracy, ...i doubt it!!

This is i think, a case of you guy's going over to China, and spending money like it grows on tree's (as far as some of these Chinese ladies are conserned anyway).  Many of these ladies see you spending this money, and it can really give them a lot of false impressions about your available cash assets.

You have to make it very clear from the off, that your not a wealthy man in your own country, even if it appears so when your in China...
So when you go buying Computers and other expensive gizmo's for your ladies, make it clear, that this is an investment in your ongoing relationship, and not  ''Presents''

But i do agree with being sensible, watchful, and using your commonsense when red flags like these crop up. Communication can tell you a lot of things in these circumstances!!!

David....

[Philip]

Whoa!! hold on here, be watchful Yes, but a brother sister conspiracy, ...i doubt it!!

This is i think, a case of you guy's going over to China, and spending money like it grows on tree's (as far as some these Chinese ladies are conserned anyway).  Many of these ladies see you spending this money, and it gives them a lot of false impressions about your available cash assets.

You have to make it very clear from the off, that your not a wealthy man in your own country, even if it appears so when your in China...
So when you go buying Computers and other expensive gizmo's for your ladies, make it clear, that this is an investment in your ongoing relationship, and not  ''Presents''

But i do agree with being sensible, watchful, and using your commonsense when red flags like these crop up. Communication can tell you a lot of things in these circumstances!!!

David....

Thanks David. You talk sense. I wouldn't have started this thread if I wasn't watchful and cautious.
But, having met her brother and his family, I have gained a lot of respect for him. You have to be able to have trust in people, otherwise, you will see conspiracies around every corner. He has made business trips to Europe and the States. He has even been to England - an affiliated company in Exeter. He knows about the standard of living in other countries.
She doesn't. She has never been on a plane before, let alone been outside China. Her understanding of relative wealth is not good, even though I have tried to make it clear I'm not rich. She also worries about everything and wants to dot the i's and cross the t's.
I will acknowledge that my attempt to buy her a computer may have contributed to a false impression. Frankly, the fact that I was prepared to pay so much for a computer was the thing that made her stop me buying it for her.
I will continue, as I always have, to take people as I find them, and balance my trust in people with my natural skepticism.
My eyes are open.

[ttwjr32]

philip  your right you have to have a certain amount of trust in people
 and from what you said your lady was thinking in terms of total cost from beginning until
 she is with you? i think that is what she is saying

[RegnisTheGreat]

Call me cynical but I'll say my piece. Sorry Philip, I would've written more earlier. I was on an on site consulting gig and didn't have much free time. Here's what I am thinking. Again I am not saying I am right and I am not saying I am wrong, but i just just offering my thoughts as a consideration.

Despite what people people say, money is a big deal in a relationship. The 5000 pounds you send her is a lot of money in China, 50000RMB which is almost 3-4 years salary for a average job in the middle size cities. Divorces do not cost that much in China, my brother did one and it was less then 2000RMB. The only reason why I think it would be so much would be to payoff the ex husband (if she was willing to payoff rather then fight since its your money, that's a concern too). Also you said she quit her job, but it will be at least an year or two before she can leave China so how does she expect to live? Have you support her?

Her story of 200000RMB doesn't make sense. Specially when you said how she suggestion breaking everything off after you said no. It seems like she thinks you are made of money and doesn't realized your finances. Her brother is good and is a helpful guy who knows what it really is and is able to talk to her. But he is not your wife and not her husband. After you and her move to the UK, what happens when there is a money conflict? Unless she understands the situation there will be a lot of arguments in the relationship. Will you call him to help every-time?

[Irishman]

Good points Regnis about the brother, Philip really does need to work this out with his lady without needing to lean on the brother.
£5000 IS a huge amount in China, how come the globe trotting brother didn't help her out with this ?, it doesn't sit right with me.
You wrote "legal fees for custody of her children from her ex-husband and pay to arrange our wedding" - so if the 5K was used for the wedding already (it seems about right along with the custody money) where on earth does the 200,000 RMB come in? I am not buying the oh its for flights and everything story, that sounds like she is covering her tracks.

I may be way off the mark with all of this, but when a lady asks for so much money AFTER you already sent her £5000, then alarm bells do start to ring.

I wonder if the married guys could ask their wives opinion on all of this to get the view from the other side as it were? maybe we are missing something that would be obvious to them?

[Willy The Londoner]

Hi Phillip,

I have kept quiet on this one for a while and like you I read all that has been said.  Having met up with you I know that you are a really nice guy and that this lady means a lot to you.   But being a nice guys means that your probably very open to be taken advantage off if you do not fully make aware your position to this lady.  And taking advantage may not be intentional on her part but it is something that soon can become a habit as I found with one lady I spent a little time with!

I am sure that if her brother has become involved and as a busy man he must realise that there is good reasons why he would take the trouble to sort of mediate between you both.   If he was not sure of his sisters feelings towards you then I personally cannot see him going to the lengths he is doing when his work duties have a heavy call on him.

I know you are a cautious fellow but love can blow ones usual cautiousness into pieces, so at the first opportunity sort out this question on finances.  If she is just after money, and I think that is unlikely after what you told me at our last get together, but if she is or if she isn't then it is far better to know either way sooner rather than later.

Willy

[RegnisTheGreat]

Philip: I haven't met you like Willy has but I still wish and hope all the best for my fellow brotherhood here. I don't think she is after money but I think she has an unrealistic expectation of how much you and westerners make.

[David5o]

Like i said above in my last post, i'm pretty sure this is a case of false impressions of Philips wealth. Yes i think her explanations are back tracking, and bear little resemblance on her initial claims, but i get the impression that her brother has sorted her out on that score. She's made a big mistake, and is covering up to save Face, ....that's fine!!!

I'm afraid this is what can happen if you are not clear from the off, that your not a wealthy man in your own country. You have to remember that some of the purchases that you make in China is equivalent to months and months of there salary, it's very easy for them to think this is a normal thing for us westerners. The dollar sign's can then start spinning away in there minds!! ...haha!!

I'm pretty sure that all this misunderstanding can be sorted out amicably between them, once she fully understands Philips economic situation. So yes he needs to be cautious, he needs to be watchful and all the other things that spring into our minds when we see a red flag pop-up, but i'm pretty sure this was a finance assumption that went very wrong.
Remember she did stop him buying that computer, because she thought it was too expensive. Not something a money grabber would do, when it was being bought for her!!!

I think we should all back away now and let Philip and his lady sort this one out between themselves now. He's had plenty of good feed back, it's now up to Philip and his lady to bring everything together and move on.....

David....