Religion Thread

[David K]

Usually in religion, as in science, & philosophical thought, it is the more inquisitive person that pauses and wonders.

There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly
what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly
disappear and be replaced by something even more  bizarre and inexplicable.
 
There is another theory which states that this has already happened.

[David K]

[Not sure 'bout that.....My wife and I are like 2 ships that "pass in the night"...by some random chance we met, we share a bond that is possibly pheromonal, possibly situational...
I never look at our marriage as "give" or even "take"...it just IS and we work to make it so.

Hint:
The Soul is greater than the Hum of its parts

[shaun]

Whew!!!!!!   I've been reading.  I wouldn't know where to begin.

I'll mention a couple of things.  The not writing the word God thing is a Jewish tradition not based on any Biblical precept.  Someone on www.jewfaq.org gives the best explanation I've seen so I will quote it, "Judaism does not prohibit writing the Name of God per se; it prohibits only erasing or defacing the Name of God. However, observant Jews avoid writing any name of God casually because of the risk that the written name might later be defaced, obliterated or destroyed accidentally or by one who does not know better."

There is no history of not writing the name of Jesus and would not be any.  Remember the Jews did not believe Jesus was the Son of God.

On the subject of Evangelical Christians one must realize that just because someone claims to be a Christian doesn't really mean that they are one.  You can find this in all walks of life.  Take out the word Christian and plug in an appropriate word and the truth of that statement still stands.

Also, one must consider the different maturity levels of Christianity just like you would with mankind.  Everyone is in a different level of walk with God based on their knowledge and maturity.  As with life some mature and gain knowledge and some do not.

Most of the people that give Christianity a bad name are immature and uneducated in their relationship with God.  You can find that to be true with pastors too.  But it seems that all people hear about are the immature and uneducated.  Those who mature and study the scriptures quite often go unnoticed.

In today's society it is popular to bash Christians and Christianity and I suppose that is what is going on somewhat here on this thread.  But keep in mind that you don't see any of the Christians on this site bashing atheist or agnostic or any other belief system.

Just remember that most Christian are good decent people and no we aren't kept in line by fear.

[David K]

Just remember that most Christian are good decent people and no we aren't kept in line by fear.

Ahem......   see below

[David K]

The not writing the word God thing is a Jewish tradition not based on any Biblical precept. 

As I understand it the rationale is this: 
The word God arises from a concept, and that concept is separate from the actuality of the ONE all embracing Jewish God, and therefor is an attack on the unity of that Gods kingdom..
Bizzare Eh :-)
But its the same rationale behind not allowing publication of images of Mohammed...
This originally arose from a wish not to confuse the messenger of God with the actuality of God..or so my Muslim friends tell me
But we can see from the worldwide reactions to the publication of danish cartoons of the prophet just where that line of thinking leads   

I'll refrain (just) from looking at the connection between Jewish tradition and examples of its practical application, such as the 1999 Operation Cast Lead in Gaza

[LP]

Quote from shaun :    [Most of the people that give Christianity a bad name are immature and uneducated in their relationship with God.  You can find that to be true with pastors too.  But it seems that all people hear about are the immature and uneducated.  Those who mature and study the scriptures quite often go unnoticed.

In today's society it is popular to bash Christians and Christianity and I suppose that is what is going on somewhat here on this thread.  But keep in mind that you don't see any of the Christians on this site bashing atheist or agnostic or any other belief system.

Just remember that most Christian are good decent people and no we aren't kept in line by fear.]  Well said Shaun.....

[David E]

Quote from shaun :    [Most of the people that give Christianity a bad name are immature and uneducated in their relationship with God.  You can find that to be true with pastors too.  But it seems that all people hear about are the immature and uneducated.  Those who mature and study the scriptures quite often go unnoticed.

In today's society it is popular to bash Christians and Christianity and I suppose that is what is going on somewhat here on this thread.  But keep in mind that you don't see any of the Christians on this site bashing atheist or agnostic or any other belief system.

Just remember that most Christian are good decent people and no we aren't kept in line by fear.]  Well said Shaun.....

Why on Earth would you consider the musings in this thread of late to be in the vein of Christian and/or Christianity bashing. That is waaaay off the mark.

What is happening from my perspective is merely proselytising for my particular brand of belief system....I'm not bashing anyone. I dont know whether or not most Christians are good and decent people...you have no definitive statistics to prove that point....only opinion and hearsay (the major platform of ANY organised religion). If also your definition of maturity is based on the study of the scriptures, how do you rationalise maturity with irrevocable belief from reading a mythical novel..........

So dont get so touchy...enter the debate and start your own opinion drive or just listen......dont just wait for Shaun to jump in (as I knew he would  ) and then bleat in agreement  !!!!!!!!!!!

[David K]

Why on Earth would you consider the musings in this thread of late to be in the vein of Christian and/or Christianity bashing. That is waaaay off the mark.

I agree.. We should be free to hoist any religion by its own petard 
------
Dr. Laura Schlesinger, an Orthodox Jew, said on her radio show that homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22, and cannot be condoned under any circumstance.
It elicited the following response

Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God’s Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can.
When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination …. End of debate.

    I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God’s Laws and how to follow them.

1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of Menstrual uncleanliness – Lev15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord – Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination, Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don’t agree. Can you settle this? Are there ‘degrees’ of abomination?

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I’m confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God’s word is eternal and unchanging.

Your adoring fan Jack
------------------------

So there:
I've been able to offend Canadians, Orthodox Jews and Gays all in one post, with narry a Christian in sight 

Goodness, this thread is starting to show signs of life 

[Rhonald]

Sorry Rhon, I cant agree with your premise that enlightened Shamans/Priests primarily ask the WHY question.....it is counter to the dogma that sustains the myth that "He" made it so.

Contrast this with religious dogma where the myths are the only leg on which the whole belief system stands...defying the test of proof on the pain of eternal dammnation.

.....it is the nature of the beast.

Why the Sacred Cow?

History of the "Sacred" Cow

In ancient India, oxen and bulls were sacrificed to the gods and their meat was eaten. But even then the slaughter of milk-producing cows was prohibited. Verses of the Rigveda refer to the cow as Devi (goddess), identified with Aditi (mother of the gods) herself.

Even when meat-eating was permitted, the ancient Vedic scriptures encouraged vegetarianism. One scripture says, "There is no sin in eating meat... but abstention brings great rewards." (The Laws of Manu, V/56)

Later, in the spiritually fertile period that produced Jainism and Buddhism, Hindus stopped eating beef. This was mostly like for practical reasons as well as spiritual. It was expensive to slaughter an animal for religious rituals or for a guest, and the cow provided an abundance of important products, including milk, browned butter for lamps, and fuel from dried dung.

Some scholars believe the tradition came to Hinduism through the influence of strictly vegetarian Jainism. But the cow continued to be especially revered and protected among the animals of India.

By the early centuries AD, the cow was designated as the appropriate gift to the brahmans (high-caste priests) and it was soon said that to kill a cow is equal to killing a brahman. The importance of the pastoral element in the Krishna stories, particularly from the 10th century onward, further reinforced the sanctity of the cow.

In another anthropology class we discussed the Sacred cow and an other reason put forward was that during planting season the ground was very hard to till in India, and that the cow, with its great strength could be used to plow the field. If the cow had been eaten during famine time, then it would not be around when planting could be attempted. In order to insure that the less forethinking and planning individuals did not kill the cow because of hunger, it had to be revered as a religious symbol.

I agree that religion is slow to change and evolve, but many practises had a certain principal that allowed society to proceed. To an average farmer in a land lock environment, thinking the earth is flat does not impede his ability to survive, but ask that of a sailor that needs to navigate using the heavens, ...... well need necessitates advancement of knowledge.

Besides - I play Civilization IV - and believe me religion has an interesting twist in this game.

[Willy The Londoner]

Oh dear. Another hornets nest been stirred up!!!!  Wonder how this started!!!! (No smileys available to me again)

Pity that most of the words are too big for me.  Wo ting bu dong!  My favourite phrase here.  ha ha

A lively debate from both sides is what I like to see.  Well it helps pass a little time!!!

I wonder why atheists are more outspoken and have more knowledge about something they do not believe it than a Christian who does believe?  Could they have been searching for the truth!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Or is a little knowledge a dangerous thing?

Shall we move onto Buddism the only religion not to have started a war in their own name!   I will waited to be torn to pieces on that one as well.
Come to think of it then neither has the new China.

Willy

[Rhonald]

I wonder why atheists are more outspoken and have more knowledge about something they do not believe it than a Christian who does believe?  Could they have been searching for the truth!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Or is a little knowledge a dangerous thing?

Willy

Knowledge about something does not need the prerequisite of believing it. And Willy why, when about religion is it only Christians that you are using. The word should have been Believer. Then the statement could be used to ask why does a capitalist  not believe in Communism but knows more about it then a communist? Thankfully Deng Xiaoping knew a little capitalism was a good thing for China's economy.

[Rhonald]

Just remember that most Christian are good decent people and no we aren't kept in line by fear.

I thought about this statement a bit Shaun, and I can understand it. As analogy, a person could get word from his doctor that he should exercise, otherwise he is at greater risk for a heart attack. Maybe fear of an early death drives the person to start exercising, but soon the person might grow to like his new life style change. I hear many religious people say that they enjoy their spiritual journey in a shared belief, so maybe for them, religion is an exercise program for the spirit.

[Willy The Londoner]

I wonder why atheists are more outspoken and have more knowledge about something they do not believe it than a Christian who does believe?  Could they have been searching for the truth!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Or is a little knowledge a dangerous thing?

Willy

Knowledge about something does not need the prerequisite of believing it. And Willy why, when about religion is it only Christians that you are using. The word should have been Believer. Then the statement could be used to ask why does a capitalist  not believe in Communism but knows more about it then a communist? Thankfully Deng Xiaoping knew a little capitalism was a good thing for China's economy.

When I moved the present furore to this thread I thought I was talking about religion not just Christianity.  But can a non believer be a Christian? I have never said I am 'a born again christian', a requisite they tell me to achieve an afterlife because I do not believe that there is one.

If I remember I started this current round by suggesting that I was probably a humanist, a person that believes in Christian values but does not enbrace the whole concept of Christianity.

Christianity has personally been good for me.

Willy

[LP]

David E! do you believe the bible a mythical novel?

[David E]

David E! do you believe the bible a mythical novel?

Absolutely..........it is a collection of anecdotal stories assembled over the Centuries and has been oft repeated and translated. It has no more basis in facts than Aboriginal rock carvings, Viking runes or a Dickens story....