Confirmed case of photo fraud? You decide

[Willy The Londoner]

If a Chinese couple marry as the result of an introduction then a red envelope containing around 3000 rmb is usually handed to the match maker.  Why should you want to pay anymore than that?

Has anyone actually paid the requested fees of 40,000 or more rmb?

Willy

[Willy The Londoner]

Some of you have seen these before but others may not have.

These are the same women.  I have seen the photoshopped one in her bedroom (fixing her table lamp not fixing her)and the second one is one I took on my birthday a year ago.

Stick with agencies that do not allow photoshopped pictures.

[Pineau]

 HELP. I am just angry enough to get myself into a serious fight. I am about to send the following letter. let me know what you think first.


Dear c.

I have been thinking about a lot of things. Mainly the recent correspondence on chnlove. You have sent me some pictures recently that you say are of you. Now I am confused and do not know what to believe. Are you the woman in the recent pictures or the one that your agency posted in your profile. There is absolutely NO resemblance between these two women. If they are both you then the profile pictures have been severely modified to the point that you are not recognizable.  When you and I would correspond I would picture in my mind the image of you in your profile. Without having you close to me it is natural for me to begin bonding to your photograph. Now I have discovered that she is not you, or you are not her. It doesn’t matter which is the real you. Imagine my disappointment to find that you are so different. This is fraud and deceit of the worse kind. I have tried to get over it and move forward but I can’t. I have been deceived and I can’t forget it.

If I have been deceived by your photos then I ask myself what else is not true. What about our correspondence. How much of that is true. If they can fabricate photos then what is to prevent them from fabricating letters. Maybe they did, maybe they didn’t I can’t tell, but the doubt will always be on my mind.  A trust has been broken. I feel I have wasted three months of my life and many thousand yuan in my pursuit of you only to find out I was chasing a fabrication. I am hurt, disappointed and very angry about this. I no  longer wish to correspond with you. Please do not contact me by any means. 
----------------------------
Ya Nan. This message is for the ChangChun LiRen Information Inquiry Service Ltd..

You have violated the implied agreement between us. By paying your fees I have a right to honest representation of the lady I am corresponding with. It is your legal responsibility to verify that the information that you post about the lady is true and accurate. To do otherwise is fraud.  In fact it is part of the agreement that you have with chnlove.com.

A promise from chnlove.com to all their customers.
Authentic profiles from quality singles
Agencies are required to strictly follow our procedure, and verify the authenticity of the lady's information (including photos, personal particulars, self-description, identity documents, etc). Besides, through the agency we can get many quality singles, from villages to big cities in China, who are hard to find. Our policies aimed at offering a sophisticated ground for every gentleman to seek their lifelong companion safely.

I am exploring my options and deciding what I will do next.

Gerard Pineau

[Vince G]

Take a few breaths. Apply the 24 hour rule. The photos you posted are the same woman. Are there others you are referring to?

[shaun]

Looks like the same woman to me.  There are subtle differences but how many years have passed between photos and how much weight has been lost.

[Philip]

How many thousands of times to we look at photos, trying to read something into them?  Sometimes we look at them so much we don't even see the person anymore. The worst thing is that those early photos are generic - they are impersonal, not directed at you, but at everyone.
Pineau, I suggest that you are at that stage where you need to break through the artificiality, and get to the real person. Maxx would tell you to go to China now. The problem is not the photos. The problem is that you need to meet the living, breathing, moving, laughing, talking person you have invested so much into getting to know. The photos are of the same person as far as I can see.
My wife had her photos done by the agency. They photoshopped out the wrinkles, trowelled loads of foundation and blasted light onto her face. She looked pretty, but somehow tense, and somehow unreal. The first webcam chat took some getting used to, because she was different, but real - she laughed, she smiled and the smile was for me, in real time. Then when I met her, the photos that I had been staring at obsessively, became suddenly irrelevant. The photos that I took of her and us when we were together, however, were suffused with meaning, because I associated the feeling I had when I was with her.

Then when we had our wedding photos done, the artificiality became a game, a joke that we both could share. As I said, I think you've just reached a stage in your relationbship, one where you need a show of faith, some sign of proof, but I doubt whether  pursuing the veracity of photos will bring you the satisafaction you desire. If I were you, I would sit down with a glass of the lovely Pineau de Charente wine that you share your name with and make a decision about if and when you are going to visit your lady, because if the photos represent your only doubt, then it sounds to me like you need to go and meet heras soon as possible.

[Pineau]

OK. Deep breath, 24 hour rule. Got it.

Thanks Guys,

But you have to admit the profile pictures (the first three) have been modified to the point you would believe they are two different women if I hadn't told you differently. . I am trying not be shallow and I believe looks are not everything but they are important. All relationships are begun with a physical attraction in my opinion. I mean, how many or you are looking for an unattractive woman? I think I can get past that. What I really find revolting is that we are here looking for a life partner and these f*)(% agencies expect us to build a marriage relationship based on a foundation of deceit and lies. I don't want such a relationship. Honesty and trust are very important to me.  (based on previous experience) That's not her fault but none the less I have serious trust issues. I think the the letter I have written (maybe revised)  will succeed in flushing the agency down the toilet. If I am going to continue my search, be it this lady or some other I will insist up front  1. direct communications 2. Real everyday casual at home photos.  3. If the chemistry is there a one on one visit as soon as it can be arranged.

I tried so many times to try to go see her, talk to her on QQ and the telephone. I  now know that all the excuses were fabricated by the agency in an attempt to interfere with direct communications.

I have discovered this, when I open a profile of a lady that has expressed an interest in me, I dont look at her immediatly. Look at the background. If it is a solid color or a generic background then the alarm  PHOTOSHOP  PHOTO goes off. be careful.

 OK. Deep breath, 24 hour rule. Got it.

[auburnkp]

Pineau,
Definitely take a deep breath. I believe that the pictures you posted are of the same women but taken during different times (maybe years ago). If you are getting the cold shoulder and not getting through by phone or QQ, there is a red flag. As far as paying the 30,000 or so rmb for the agency fee, you can bypass it if you and your lady secretly get rid of them. Just be careful that if you visit her, none of the agency people see you. What my wife and I did was go through her cousin to help translate our letters. She told the agency she was no longer interested in their help. I wrote a fake letter to my wife saying that that I met a girl here in the US through a friend. Just make sure you do it at different times and be discreet. Good luck!

[Vince G]

The photoshopping has been talked about a few times...  http://www.chnlove.info/index.php?topic=1039.0

FYI I've been into photography for about 40 years. Using Photoshop for more then 10 years (also talked about this before). Looking at the photos of the woman, the nose is all the same. It's not a common nose shape so it seems to be her in all. Eyes, eye shape, face (can be made wider or thinner) many features can be changed but that nose is the same in all. Her hair color changes in them so a wide period of time between them is likely. Different camera lens can change the features also, so if she had photos from different photographers?

But a face to face is the eye opener.

[Pineau]

Good point Auburnkp.
I am sure you are right. They are probably taken several years apart. But would it be fair for me to post a picture of me at age 30 in my profile ( I'm 58).  I can say for sure the most recent pictures of her with red hair are less than a month old because she is wearing a bracelet and listening to music on an mp3  player both of which I sent to her. Even those photos have  been photoshoped.  I HATE THESE AGENCIES. They are manipulating money grubbing foul evil people. hm mm that felt good.

As far as going around the agencies. That's great.  If you can find a private translator like I did, that works for ME and is a fraction of the cost that just makes good sense.

Vince, That was what I was hoping for all along. A face to face. But the agency wouldn't allow it with a promise of marriage.  Its sickening how they try to corral you into a commitment.
As far as the nose. I agree with one exception. It is not a common nose shape and is easy t spot in most of the pictures. But in the first two pictures (if that is her) you can tell that the nose has bee flattened at the nostrils and widened at the bridge. For what purpose I don't know.  But is is twice as wide as in the other photos.

[David E]

Pineau
Welcome to the World of CHNLove.......
There are hundreds, if not thousands of posts on the Forum that deal with the issues you raise here......photo fraud and the complicity of the Agencies in perpetrating this deception.
But lets get it all in context a bit more, all of these Ladies are seduced by the Agencies to believe that they can get a good, worthy and "handsome" Western man to be their life partner and live happily ever after. With such a "carrot" dangled before them, do you really believe that they would put a photo/photos on their profile that showed them at a complete disadvantage...like as if they just got out of bed, hair like a birds nest, wrinkles, blemishes and their "less desirable" features on public display I dont think a woman from ANY Country would be capable of such !! and considering the "assistance" they get from the Agencies and the encouragement it is not surprising to know that in some form or other they want as much help from cosmetics as they can get......its a woman thing.
Agreed, the Agencies in general take it too far, and thats where we get caught. Because you can rant and rave all you like at the Agencies and declare to them that you never want to contact this woman again...then what are you going to do ....yes, you will find another woman from another Agency and begin the whole merry go-round again !!
CHNLove cant lose, their only objective is to get you spending EMF money...nothing else. They let the numbers game work for them and laugh at you.
On the other side of this coin is the drivel that so many of these women get from Western Men...believe me, I have read some of the letters and seen some of the photos sent to my wife before we got together...I am ashamed that some Men have the nerve to be MORE deceitful than these women.
Please take it as a given that every profile on CHNLove has had some level of cosmetic interference...either minor or major, and we all know which Agencies in particular go way to far (Changsha Love Bridge for one !!!) But in itself, unless extreme does not mean these women are all frauds.
What's the solution ??/...do what so many of us have done before, dont mess with EMF's for months, make it clear that you demand a QQ or more personal contact...and if you cant get this, move on !! You can only answer the REAL questions about chemistry with a face-to-face meeting....everything you do up to this point is not real. Sadly, you must get on a plane and see for yourself, then you will know...win,lose or draw. For many of us, we had several false starts, several bitter lessons before we listened to the good advice here and got off the CHNLove treadmill.
There is an element of fraud at large in the CHNLove Ladies, but generally, there are many, many lovely Women doing their best to find future happiness, sometimes they are mislead by the Agencies and led to believe there is only one way to get their dream Man, but I dont think that there is a high percentage of Ladies who deliberately set out to decieve us...just a bit misguided and they have bad advice given to them from the people who should know better...but the mighty EMF dollar wins every time..

[Arnold]

Pineau,
Definitely take a deep breath. I believe that the pictures you posted are of the same women but taken during different times (maybe years ago). If you are getting the cold shoulder and not getting through by phone or QQ, there is a red flag. As far as paying the 30,000 or so rmb for the agency fee, you can bypass it if you and your lady secretly get rid of them. Just be careful that if you visit her, none of the agency people see you. What my wife and I did was go through her cousin to help translate our letters. She told the agency she was no longer interested in their help. I wrote a fake letter to my wife saying that that I met a girl here in the US through a friend. Just make sure you do it at different times and be discreet. Good luck!

auburnkp , about the Agency pay-off . This NOT paying the final Fee due to the Agency , is of course NOT for all Lady's . My Wife would never have concider'd NOT paying ( yes 35000 RMB ) , as she had signed a Contract and she was NOT to loose Face for herself , or the Family , by NOT paying this Fee . We talked about it for a long time and I explained that .. how I would have NOT done this or that , but that is NOT the point here . I was NOT going to step in full force and go against my Wife or the Agency , just because here we do those things . China , it's been said so many times .. different ways of doing things there .

[maxx]

Pineau you have ben given some good advice.The only thing I can add.Is take a good hard look at this situation.Get it straight in your head.You are headed for a wreck real fast.When all doubt is removed then you can move forward.

If you are not comfortable with the agencies business practices.Why have you continued to correspond with the woman? My point is you have already made up your mind along time before you wrote the post today.The only thing you are looking for here.Is justification to send that letter.As others have mentioned in this very thread.Chnlove.does do photo shopping.They will not let you have direct contact.If they think the woman still owes them money.Or if they think they can suck a couple more dollars out of your bank account.

I remember your story from before.Maybe chnlove is not the path for you.I think your still a little hurt from.What happened before.Nobody can blame you for being a little gun shy.I know you took a hard hit.It would of broke most people.

Why don't you talk to Ted and Willy.They have thiere own match making service.And they can get you hooked up with a descent lady.I have looked threw their ladies profiles.They don't use photo shopping.Hell according to Ted he takes all the pictures.So you know it is the real deal.Yes I know Willy is a Britt.But Willy is alright in my book even if he is a Britt.Ted is a good guy even though he does where funny shirts.That went out of  style 30 years ago.So send them a pm.Or go to www.chinaloveagency.com get registered and take a look.I'm sure you would feel much more comfortable going this route.

[Pineau]

I am not really blaming her. I  understand that no woman wants to show their worst side to the public. She was probably seduced into believing that if she ends up with a good husband no harm is done and the end justifies the means.   But I have to believe that there is a point when putting on your best dress and make up, somewhere you cross the line between vanity and fraud.  It really not so much the looks that bother me (She is really not a bad looking woman) its the deception.  And the agency encourages it. And as I mentioned in my letter if the agency will fabricate an image then what is to prevent them from fabricating a letter or anything else?

As far as the fees go. I was told there are none but I am sure if had fell completely into this trap I was due for a big suprise.

OK Maxx, I hear you. But your assumption is wrong. This has all come to a head in the past week. I had my suspicions but until the past week I was not convinced.  I intend to move on and AWAY from chnlove.com I have been burned and learned my lesson. I do not need them any more. If I decide I want to persue this lady then I will do it on my own without chnlove. I will visit Ted and Willie and see what they got.  I also have dozens of Chinese friends that could steer me right.

I should get down off this soap box. You're probably tired of me ranting about this. I will shut up for per the 24 hour rule.

Deep breath, 25 hour rule. Got it.

[Vince G]

Yes I spotted the flattening of the nose but when you look at it you can see that point she has on it. Now another thing... webcam. The agency has to allow a webcam session. It may even be in her contract? Push the fact.