Author Topic: Has anyone ever started a business in China  (Read 11336 times)

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Offline Lain

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Has anyone ever started a business in China
« on: August 10, 2010, 03:27:33 pm »
I am curious, has any of the members here every started a business in China ??

I am considering starting a small business in China, not sure if it would be retail or wholesale as I am currently in China if after the first 6-months I can "adjust" to life there. My current company offers wholesale supplies and equipment for the US textile decorating industry....T-shirts, Hats...etc All the things that go into decorating them  and I am moving into some crossover industries like graphic printing equipment and signs. There is a HUGE export industry that I can tap into there, and during my time there I will be investing much of my efforts towards that end.

So if anyone here has a Chinese small business, I would be curious to know your thoughts. For export the vast majority of my clients will be the ones I already serve, and in English so I am thinking that many issues will be easier from the standpoint of customers....but dealing with mfgr's in China I imagine is whole other problem.....I have had to do this in a prior job and found the experience painful to put it nice. But I never had to deal with the companies in person, or even go to China so it might be different when your on the ground??

Any thoughts, would be appreciated.

Paul Todd

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Re: Has anyone ever started a business in China
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2010, 11:30:11 pm »
Lain it's not easy my friend. I have run an exporting and sourcing business here for the last 6 months. The language barrier is the first and most obvious problem but so is the whole Chinese way of working. To be honest the only things I will supply now are from factories I have personally visited and checked the goods themselves. Next I will go and physically inspect every order before it is sent out and have a copy of the waybill and a complete paper trail for export. If your thinking of shipping by sea in containers or part containers this is a whole new ball game. First rule here is never expect things to go smoothly, over time you build up contacts which helps move every thing along but expect to pay for your education or get a reliable agent to do it all for you! Best of luck there is a lot of money to be made here and don't forget that there is a huge demand for imported goods here too!

Arnold

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Re: Has anyone ever started a business in China
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2010, 12:25:36 am »
Qing and I , Qing's brother who's in the Trading Business himself in Shanghai and knows many Customs people that can do almost everything for him
but sell what he receives from the Czech Rep . now . I will include my Brother in-law ( first wife ) which has the knowledge of the product we are sending by Container through me to Shanghai . This item ( I wont say what it is ) ,  he will have no problem selling .. as it is long needed there and soon other Cities hopefully . all major Cities in China . Ones I work out the details with my brother in-law here , it can be full speed ahead and make a dollar or two . I will let the Cat out of the Bag if in full swing .. if it ever comes to that . As always , looks great on paper .. so we'll see .

Paul Todd

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Re: Has anyone ever started a business in China
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2010, 12:41:20 am »
Good luck with that Arnold. I know a few Chinese businesses that have warehousing in the Czech Rep seems to be a favorite, think it's something to do with "Flexible" import laws. People often think that China is only good for export but the demand for imported goods is huge. Having connections in the Shanghai customs dept is a massive plus point and must help a lot with your importing plans. Like I said I hope it works out and  we soon see you being driven around Shanghai in the latest BMW in an Italian silk suit.

Offline maxx

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Re: Has anyone ever started a business in China
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2010, 01:32:51 am »
I don't know if it still holds true.But a couple of years ago.I remember a friend of mine telling me.That her daughters and thiere friends all wanted Levi's 501 with the  button fly.I guess you can by the cheap fakes in China.But the real Levi's are hard to come buy.And very expensive.so that mite be worth looking into.


I talked to a taxi driver.Back in 2007 in JiuJiang.We were trying to work out a deal.where we would each put up half of the money.On 2 new taxi cabs.We kicked the idea around for a couple of weeks.I even made a few phone calls and had part of the money lined up.And the guy had a couple of drivers.But we could never come to a agreement on splitting the profits.After the taxi's were paid for.So I backed out of the deal.

It wasn't going to be a huge amount of profit.But my end was going to end up being close to 600 a month.After all the expenses were paid.I kind of wished I had stuck with it now.Just to see where it ended up at.

My wife has two cousins in Beijing they opened a restaurant in 2008.I thought about getting together with them on the restaurant.But like always when it comes to spending money.I back off. And I end up losing out on the real money.According to my wife it is up and running.And they have good business.So they are making lots of money.

So I guess the moral of the story for me is.If the opportunity is thiere.I just need to take it and stop being such a wimp.

ttwjr32

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Re: Has anyone ever started a business in China
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2010, 02:23:08 am »
such a wimp Maxx  hahahhaha 

Offline Lain

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Re: Has anyone ever started a business in China
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2010, 05:32:50 pm »
Well export is the side of things I would be looking into. Sadly I have had some experience with being in the US and (and I use the term loosely) working with a few Chinese forms to have them ship products to the company I worked for back about 12 years ago....it was like eating rice with one chopstick.

My thoughts were the same as Paul Todd's...Being ON THE GROUND ~ IN PERSON to ensure that there are as little issues as possible. I already have about half a dozen companies that I am already working with here in the states that have expressed an interest in having a "buyer" on the ground to both inspect quality, and perform the tasks of exporting, documentation....etc.

While this is still just an idea, and I will not make any choices to operate such a company in China until I have been living there for at very least 6 months...or more. I am simply doing some research. Its good to know that at least one member here is working on the ground doing the same...might be easier to simply "contract" with you for these services in the beginning and get an education about the challenges before making any investments towards it.

As mentioned, its for a specific industry that I would serve, and I am an expert in the use of the products, so I know junk when I see it...and BS when its being spoken (well in English anyway). I know that doing business in China will be a daunting task to say the least...but if I am to make it my home.....it offers huge potential in my industry since almost 35% - 40% of the products I already sell are made somewhere in China already...best to cut out 3-4 middlemen and go right to the source!

Thanks guys, might have some ideas once I am there...less than 2 months until I move!!  :-\

Arnold

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Re: Has anyone ever started a business in China
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2010, 05:45:17 pm »
Good luck with that Arnold. I know a few Chinese businesses that have warehousing in the Czech Rep seems to be a favorite, think it's something to do with "Flexible" import laws. People often think that China is only good for export but the demand for imported goods is huge. Having connections in the Shanghai customs dept is a massive plus point and must help a lot with your importing plans. Like I said I hope it works out and  we soon see you being driven around Shanghai in the latest BMW in an Italian silk suit.

Again , thanks Paul . Of course that would be a dream ( #2 ) come true for me . haha

Lain , I wish you all the best also on your venture . One just don't know where a road will lead .. until your on it .

Offline David S

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Re: Has anyone ever started a business in China
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2010, 07:31:57 pm »
I'm not sure I'm reading this right, you currently own a business supplying wholesale products to various clients in the US, yes?

If that is the case it sounds not so much that you need to start a new business, but make a few adjustments in your suppliers.  You are right that you are there and can establish a good relationship with some new suppliers.  I'm not really saying you should do this just something to consider.  Maybe make a few test orders while you're there and see how things go.  If nothing else it will help you broaden your base of suppliers and perhaps even increase your margins.


Offline Lain

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Re: Has anyone ever started a business in China
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2010, 07:44:08 pm »
I'm not sure I'm reading this right, you currently own a business supplying wholesale products to various clients in the US, yes?

If that is the case it sounds not so much that you need to start a new business, but make a few adjustments in your suppliers.  You are right that you are there and can establish a good relationship with some new suppliers.  I'm not really saying you should do this just something to consider.  Maybe make a few test orders while you're there and see how things go.  If nothing else it will help you broaden your base of suppliers and perhaps even increase your margins.

Well that is sort of what my company does.....Ya see I have developed an e-commerce system into a new "sales channel" that allows any manufacturer to sell its products directly online via my system. However where it diverges from a normal system is that it can take into account the manufactures dealer network anywhere on earth and sell directly from the dealers inventory to sell "through" a supply chain to the end user.

The system can manage inventories and shipping from the mfg to the end customer and automates the purchase and shipping process. The same system also allows dealers to purchase via the same system from manufactures and allows pricing on a per product basis. More or less its a global purchasing management system that accommodates the entire supply chain in both directions....and I take a small transaction fee for every order processed  through the system, kind of like an Amazon.com for the B2B market.

This system is almost ready for it live launch after almost 4 years of development with a limited amount of clients in the US marketplace....with some international orders. What I am hoping to do is approach Chinese firms that have products in my industry to export, lock in the details into my database, then either market them directly to my existing distributors for a decent profit....or directly to the end customers for a healthier margin. I do not have, nor ever hold any inventory. I operate by creating "networks" based on existing inventories and supply chains by using highly automated web server based software.

Due to the high volume of transactions that the system handles, I really do not have time to "handle" the orders and must rely on the people who do the shipping to simply ship it as my systems generate the purchase orders. Even here in the US there have been technical issues with vendors who simply fail to follow through on order processing in a timely, organized manner and so this creates an issue where I am concerned that Chinese companies will simply drop the ball to many times...or worse yet think that every purchase orders price is "negotiable".....my system works by automation and while price changes are not a problem, it does require participating companies to provide 30 days notice on any changes.

I do see a HUGE potential for exports, and initially I know it will require lots of time for me to both setup and manage new manufactures into the system...but after they are into the system I would like to take a "hands off" method and I am curious if that is even something that can be done in China with manufacturer's? This is why I am considering creating a Chinese based company that is separate from my actual company and simply hire Chinese sales reps to handle the daily "crap" after I get the ball rolling. Just playing with some ideas....plus having a Chinese company could go along way towards gaining long term residential status....especially IF the dollar amounts become significant.

Offline Chong

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Re: Has anyone ever started a business in China
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2010, 04:39:04 am »
Correct me if I'm wrong ... people are buying from you when they're really buying from the manufacturer. You're giving the manufacturer business that they wouldn't otherwise have. You're an indirect sales rep for them ? Do you process the pynts or wait for a cut from the manufacturer ?

What's your industry product category ?

As to your original thread question, here in Kaiping, you have to have friends in the gov't. They try to take a cut from everything ... especially 'real estate' / setting up a manufacturing company ... anything 'physical' that they can see & touch.

Paul Todd

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Re: Has anyone ever started a business in China
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2010, 10:39:19 pm »
"They try to take a cut from everything ... ... anything 'physical' that they can see & touch. Chong, damn right they do!

If you want to register a company here in China, This is something to think about :)
Registration Requirements Details

Procedure 1.
    Obtain a notice of pre-approval of the company name
Time to complete:
    10 day
Cost to complete:
    no charge
Name of Agency:
Comment:
    The applicant picks up the application for company name preapproval from the local Administration of Industry and Commerce (AIC), or otherwise, downloads the form from AIC’s Web site. The appliant can be the representative designated by all the shareholders or the agent entrusted by all the shareholders. The completed application form shall be signed by all shareholders of the company. The application form together with the business licences or other registration certificates (if the shareholders are companies or other eligible entities) and the photocopy of the identity card of the individual shareholders shall be filed with the AIC. Effective July 1, 2004, enterprise name registration must follow the amended State Administration of Industry and Commerce (SAIC) rules (that is, the new Enterprise Name Registration Administration Implementing Measures, or Qi ye ming cheng deng ji guan li shi shi ban fa). According to the new registration rules, if the applicant goes directly to the AIC, a proposed company name is approved or rejected on the spot. This is newly regulated by Article 24 of the aforementioned measures and is implemented in practice. However if the application is made through mail, fax, email, etc, the proposed company name will be approved or rejected within 15 days.

Procedure 2.
    Open a preliminary bank account; deposit fund in the account and obtain the certificate of deposit
Time to complete:
    1 day
Cost to complete:
    no charge
Name of Agency:
Comment:
    The Company Law was modified on October 27, 2005, and became effective on January 1, 2006.
    - Article 26 lowers the minimum capital requirement to CNY 30,000. According to this article, the shareholders, after paying the required initial capital contribution, may pay off their remaining capital contributions, if any, within 2 years after establishing the company. Note that the required initial capital contribution is at least 20% of the proposed company’s registered capital and shall not be lower than the legal requirement for the registered capital for particular industries.
    - Article 27 provides the form of the capital contribution. According to this article, if the initial capital contribution is in cash, the shareholders must (a) open a preliminary bank account after obtaining preapproval of the company name; and (b) deposit the initial capital contribution into the bank account. If the initial capital contribution is in nonmonetary assets, the shareholder must transfer the property title of the assets to the company and the value of such assets must be appraised. The initial capital contribution must be verified by legally established verification institutes. The revised Company Law enables shareholders to contribute up to 70% of the registered capital of a limited liability corporation in “nonmonetary assets that can be monetarily valued and legally transferred.”

Procedure 3.
    Obtain capital verification report from an auditing firm
Time to complete:
    21 days
Cost to complete:
    RMB 350
Name of Agency:
Comment:
    An auditing firm has to prepare a report that verifies the company capital as past of the documents necessary for registration

Procedure 4.
    Obtain registration certification "business license of enterprise legal person" with SAIC or local equivalent
Time to complete:
    5 days
Cost to complete:
    0.08% of registered capital (registration fee) + RMB10 for copy of Business License
Name of Agency:
Comment:
    To obtain registration certification, the company must file a completed application form along with the following documents:
    - Notice of approval of company name.
    - Lease or other proof of company office.
    - Capital verification certificate or appraisal report.
    - Articles of association, executed by each shareholder.
    - Representation authorization.
    - Identity cards of shareholders and identification documents of officers.
    - Appointment documents and identification documents (certifying name and address) of the directors, supervisors, and officers.
    - Appointment documents and identification documents of the company’s legal representative
    - If the initial contribution is in nonmonetary assets, the document certifying transfer of the property title of such assets.
    - Other documents as required by the authorities.

    Within 15 working days from receipt of all documents, the AIC should decide to approve or not approve the company registration. After the company registers, it can proceed to have its seal carved, to open formal bank accounts, and to apply for taxation registration.

    According to the new administrative rules, application forms may be downloaded from the local government authorities’ Web sites. Statutory time limits were introduced for acceptance of application documents and for registration decision making, which differs according to the form of application. In practice, the decision will usually be made within 15 days of receipt of the application. Documentation requirements for company registration were standardized. The Registry is now required to publicly display them.
    - According to Article 52, if an application is filed (by letter, telegraph, telex, fax, email, or electronic data exchange), the Company Registry must, within 5 days of receiving the relevant application documents and materials, decide whether to accept the application. If the application documents and materials are incomplete or do not meet the statutory requirements, the Registry must inform the applicant, within 5 days, of all contents subject to supplementation and correction.
    - According to Article 54, if the organ in charge of company registration must verify the application documents and materials, it shall decide whether to approve the registration within 15 days of acceptance. In other cases, the organ must decide whether to approve the registration on the spot or within 15 days of acceptance.
    - According to Article 55, if the organ decides to approve a company registration, it shall issue a “notice on approval for establishment registration” and inform the applicant to collect its business license within 10 days.

Procedure 5.
    Obtain the approval to make a company seal from the police department
Time to complete:
    1 day
Cost to complete:
    no charge
Name of Agency:
Comment:
    If all the shareholders are individual investors, the registration file will include the duplicate of the business license (the original and one copy) and the legal representative’s identification card. If registration is approved, a notice to make the company seal will be issued to the company.

Procedure 6.
    Make a company seal
Time to complete:
    1 day
Cost to complete:
    RMB 300
Name of Agency:
Comment:
    To make the company seal, the company shall designate a company possessing a Shanghai Special Industry Permit (company seal carving) (《上海市特种行业许可证》(公章刻制业. This process costs CNY 70–300, depending on the design and the quality.

Procedure 7.
    Obtain the organization code certificate issued by the Quality and Technology Supervision Bureau
Time to complete:
    5 days
Cost to complete:
    RMB 148
Name of Agency:
Comment:
    The company must apply for the organization code certificate within 30 days of obtaining the business license, by filing a completed application form with the Shanghai Organization Code Management Center (a branch of the Quality and Technology Supervision Bureau) along with the following documents:
    - Business license (original and one copy)
    - Identity card of the legal representative (one copy).

Procedure 8.
    Register with the local statistics bureau
Time to complete:
    1 day
Cost to complete:
    RMB 20
Name of Agency:
Comment:
    Within 30 days of obtaining the business license, the company must apply for statistics registration by submitting to the local statistics bureau a completed statistics registration form along with the following documents:
    - Business license (one copy)
    - Organization code certificate (one copy).

Procedure 9.
    Register for both state and local tax with the tax bureau
Time to complete:
    7 days
Cost to complete:
    RMB 100
Name of Agency:
Comment:
    The tax registration procedures have been simplified since 2004 with the implementation of the Administration Measures of Tax Registration, issued by the State Taxation Bureau. Two separate taxation authorities still exist (the state taxation bureau and local taxation bureau). However, company founders are required to file tax registration only once, to either of these two authorities. The statutory time limit is 30 days from the date of receiving the registration application.

    The company must file the tax registration form and the initial tax reporting forms. Together with those forms, the company submits for review the following documents:
    - Business license duplicate (original and one copy).
    - Organization code certificate (original and one copy).
    - Identification card of the legal representative (original and one copy).
    - Identification card of the taxation personnel (original and one copy).
    - Company seal and financial seal.
    - Office lease agreement and receipt(s) for rent paid.
    - Articles of association (original and one copy) and bank-issued account-opening certificate (original and one copy).
    - capital verification report
    -Photocopy of property ownership certificate
    - land use right certificate
    - commitment letter regarding the authenticity of the documents submitted.

Procedure 10.
    Open a formal bank account of the company and transfer the registered capital to the account
Time to complete:
    1 day
Cost to complete:
    no charge
Name of Agency:
Comment:
    The procedures and required documents for opening a company bank account and transferring the registered capital to it may vary depending on each bank’s practice.

Procedure 11.
    Apply for the authorization to print or purchase financial invoices/receipts
Time to complete:
    10 days
Cost to complete:
    no charge
Name of Agency:
Comment:
    After registering for state or local taxes and obtaining the tax registration certificate, the company must apply separately to the relevant authorities (that is, the state and local taxation offices) for approval to purchase and issue financial invoices/receipts. The taxation authority will issue the invoice purchasing book, if it agrees to grant the company such qualification, upon reviewing the following submitted documents:
    - Tax registration certificate (one copy).
    - Identity card of taxation personnel (one copy).
    - Application forms.
    - Models of invoice seal.

Procedure 12.
    Purchase uniform invoices
Time to complete:
    1 day
Cost to complete:
    RMB 1.05-1.67 per book of invoices
Name of Agency:
Comment:
    The company must obtain and submit an application form to purchase uniform invoices (购用统一发票申请单). The form and the authorization book (from Procedure 10) must be submitted to the Tax Office.

    The VAT and ordinary invoices are published by the tax authority for antiforgery reasons (with few exceptions). Taxpayers buy VAT and ordinary invoices from the tax authority.

Procedure 13.
    File for recruitment registration with local career service center
Time to complete:
    1 day
Cost to complete:
    no charge
Name of Agency:
Comment:
    Within 30 days of recruiting employees, a new company must register with the local career service center, sponsored by the local government. Relevant application forms which can be electronically downloaded or obtained from the local career service center shall be filled and submitted.

Procedure 14.
    Register with Social Welfare Insurance Center
Time to complete:
    1 day
Cost to complete:
    no charge
Name of Agency:
Comment:
    Within 30 days of establishment, the company must register for the payment of employee social insurance with the local social insurance office by submitting a completed social insurance registration form and the following documents:
    - Company seal.
    - Duplicate of business license (original and one copy).
    - Organization code certificate (original and one copy).

    After all these documents have been verified, the authorities will issue a notice to open a social insurance account for the company. The company must then apply to open a special account at the designated bank. The local social insurance office will issue the social insurance registration card to the company on receiving bank notification of account opening.

This is just a flavor of what you "might " have to go through. As always here things change and of course its often up to the officer that you see in each department what the actual requirements are on the day! As you can see hiring staff can be a problem and once you do this you are plugged into the system and questions will be asked.
China and Hong Kong signed a Free Trade Agreement, called the Closer Economic Partnership Agreement (CEPA) in 2004. The agreement opened the Chinese market to Hong Kong-based businesses. Registering a company there may be a simpler.
Lain,I would seek expert advice as I'm sure you have already thought about or employ one of the many companies out here that specialize in setting up Chinese companies for foreigners. I do not want to put you off doing this by any means, just wanted to point out some potential problems you might face. China can be a difficult place sometimes. Keeping things simple and under the radar is always an option and Internet based business's are pretty free from any interference. Anyway just some food for thought as it were. Best of luck.

ttwjr32

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Re: Has anyone ever started a business in China
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2010, 12:55:15 am »
  Paul,

you left out one other important fact--- a full night of beer drinking when all this is completed!! ;D

when i read this a month ago for something  i felt like having one before i started

Ted

Offline Willy The Londoner

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Re: Has anyone ever started a business in China
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2010, 10:19:27 pm »
That is why so many companies are registered outside of China such as Hong Kong or the UK as mine are.

Less bureaucracy.

Willy
Willy The Lpndoner

Now in my 12th year living here,

Offline Lain

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Re: Has anyone ever started a business in China
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2010, 10:35:31 pm »
The reality is that I may never file to start a company in China, after reading about all that. I may simply act as a "Buyer" for exporting to my US company. In fact today I was talking with a distributor that I currently do business with about a product that I sell now and how I found out that its actually made right in Xiaolan only 12 miles from the city center.....AWESOME!!

I move about 500-600 of these spot remover guns every year and currently use a US source who brings them into the US....Now I can skip them, get them mfg direct and the distributor is willing to re-ship them to my clients for a fee that makes me almost 25% more than my current supplier. Best part is that I can now approach other distributors who purchase from the same source as I am for an even larger volume, plus the mfg tell me that they also make it in a 220 volt version for the Europe market that I have not even touched for sales yet...One item, and if I were to double my sales and add the extra margin I would earn over $65,000 in new revenue!!

Who needs a Chinese company when I can simply make a purchase, and ship it back to the US??

Of course, I might still consider a Chinese company in the future but after looking at that hassle....who needs it?