Careful, frugal...or obsessive

[David E]

Sorry to hi-jack Scott's thread...but for me the issue is so important, I decided to start a new one !!

I know that the quality of being careful with money is an admirable trait with our Chinese ladies.

As I said in my post on Scott's thread, it can go too far and get a bit tedious.
Us guys must consider that we have got to change a lot of our thinking and attitudes when we marry a Chinese Woman, and we know about the 24 hour rule, and about "different culture, different ways"

I asked for advice, because over a long period of time, getting hammered by your wife for spending anything that she considers wasteful could well lead to conflict.

I guess the info coming back from Vince and Arnold counselled me to smile sweetly and say I dont understand or to simple and meekly agree with her....when I dont agree at all !!
One of the platforms of a good relationship is honesty and communication. I will not sweep important issues under the carpet, but I know that some things in Chinese culture (frugality) are not easy to change.

I dont want to buy a bag of cherries and eat them in the car before I get home !!!!!......neither do I want to be challenged day after day over every dollar I spend. At the same time I will not get sneaky and hide everything from her...thats a quick road to disaster.

I have considered telling her that she is forbidden to mention this subject ever again, but thats a Dictatorship, and not really the answer.
I have considered ignoring it, but it bugs the hell out of me.
I have considered changing my ways and becoming as frugal as she wants me to, but that will change my life and not for the better.

She never raised a peep about this stuff before we were married...........sure, she always fought hard for discounts in whatever we did, but never hammered me about spending money.

Now, it is different...and I dont like it !!!

[Martin]

Got to agree with you there David...I am seeing similar things that seem to be hidden before marriage.  While I agree that we need to be patient, understanding, and willing to make concessions because we married a Chinese woman, I also feel that the same must be done by them.....they are marrying a western man.  We have a different culture as well, and that also needs to be understood and respected.

[Arnold]

Great you started this with a new thread David .

It is of most importance that we do Communicate this subject .. carefully-tactfully-in all details .. to bring "OUR " point across to our lovely Lady's . I might have made Qing too much of Frugal Person out to be . I only mentioned a few that have kind of ( not get me upset ) put me on " ON " so to speak , instead of standby . I do handle the Money in the Household and pretty much everything which is needed to handle this bad Economy right now .
Speaking of this Economy of our's , that is , I think the very thing that has Qing converted into this NOW frugal Person out of nowhere . Because she is worried along with me , as she can see .. Life in the US is not what she had envisioned coming here .
Do I blame her for it , of course not .. it is after all for our own good . Her joy of the new Job she has did not last too long as she knows , ten-fifteen hours a week wont help much coming from her part . She want to be a Reg. Nurse and start next year with her schooling for it .
I can look at this two way's : One being , the western way - She wants to be independent
                                               Two being , she loves me enough to make both of our Life better
Well , what she shows me and how I feel .. it's 100% number two . So remember , they do it out of Love ... we do it , because that is what we are used to doing . Now who should give in the most ?
This is easy ... we must ! Not put all on ourselves , but we must " ADJUST " more . After all we were smart enough to find them , let's be smart enough to keep them too .. Adjust is the word .

[mustfocus]

David,

I won't say there is any one answer to what you're looking for, but one thing a lot of women will look for in general is security.  Being part of the first generation of immigrants, I know one of the things that people feared was a loss of security.  If I spend money now, what happens when there is no more money to spend because I lost my job (especially in this economy, this is definitely a reality).  Your wives are just planning several steps into the future.

I think that if you try to approach things in a different light, things might work out better.  If you can show your wife the value of something, then you won't be arguing about it.  For example, if you show your wife that overall, it'll be cheaper in the long run to have that international roaming plan (which gives you a discount on calling), then she might accept it easier.

One thing I do not recommend (and I don't think you would, but for anyone who is considering it) though is not to flash your money around, even if you're rolling in it.  Bragging or rubbing something like that in someone's face WILL get you in trouble... And if certain people realise (or think) you have cash, be prepared to deal with handouts.  We've seen that in other threads...

That said...this is by no means a comprehensive things, but just some food for thought.

[shaun]

David,

Peggy and I are not married yet but it has already started with me.  For me money has become tight again and suddenly things are changing in how she talks about money.

What I am thinking of doing is budgeting in groups.  I am thinking that I will give Peggy a certain amount of money each month to handle all by herself and with it she will purchase all of the food, clothing, and maybe a few more items.  This way it gives her a little control over some of the finances and she can be as frugal as she wants as long as she feeds and clothes me satisfactorily.

The other areas I will handle myself.  There is a couple a few stores away from mine and a couple of weeks ago I learned an important lesson from them.  He is American and she is Korean.  I was working outside the front of my store as he was too.  His wife was giving him a devil of a time over something concerning the store.  A good phrase would be nipping at his heals.  I could tell he was becoming impatient with her but was guarding his tongue.  Finally he asked her whose department it was.  She said "yours."   He asked her whose responsibility was it.  She replied, "yours."  He said, "It seems to me that you are sticking your nose into someone else's business and not focusing on your departments of the business." 

I remembered thinking boy... I don't think I would have handled it that way but she didn't say a word.  She went back to doing her job and by noon everything was lo-vie do-vie again.

Parameters sometimes help the relationship and help avoid arguments.

Just a thought,

Shaun

[halfpint]

I gave up a "C" level position so I could be home for my young daughter when her school was out.  Now I'm working on a contract basis, just sort of making enough to pay the bills.  I don't regret it, I've actually learned quite a bit about being frugal.  I explained all this to my girl, she seems to understand and knows my position.  Hopefully I have "set the parameters" to start our relationship properly.

[Paul Todd]

My wife handles all the money. Each month we pool all our earnings and as it's spent or saved she tells me exactly how much and who too as it happens. I did not ask her to do this but she seems to think it is necessary. She loves clothes shopping and I like to see her looking beautifully so a couple of times a month we hit the shops. She spends the day trying on various outfits and I get to sit in a comfy chair that all the shops appear to have and have fun with the shop girls or just  watch the people pass by. My wife loves that I go shopping with her,something not many Chinese men would contemplate. I don't treat myself often not because I'm some how depriving myself of anything I want just that I don't need much really. If I want something I just buy it and she gets pleasure out of seeing me happy. We live well, and there is never any arguments over money.
I would say we were careful and that she is obsessive with getting discounts on everything. It took a bit of getting use to that whatever food I said I liked from then on it was bought in bulk. I've never lived in a house with so many toothbrushes before! I like honey with my breakfast so now we have 24 jars in the cupboard and she had a local shop order it specially and of course at a huge discount, I could give you a list of stuff but I think you get the picture!
It just takes time for the dust to settle. When two people from vastly different culture decide to marry and spend their lives together it does not matter how much they love each other it still a learning process and both have to adjust to make a success of it. If you think it's all about doing your best to change the others outlook watch out the sparks will fly. Chinese women are strong willed and quite often set in there ways, you have to play the long game. Give it time,if you think she has some strange idea's,imagine what she makes of you!
My wife still surprise me and I love it, even though it can be very confusing at times. Last evening we where sitting around chatting, my wife ,myself and her daughter. Ming zhi cut up a pear for us to share. I told her I didn't really want any so her daughter said that she could not eat any either. When I asked why she said that it was bad luck for two people to eat a pear but good luck for three people. I of course had some and then everyone was happy.
The 24 hour rule can turn into months, whats the rush. Enjoy the differences and compromise, saying "yes dear" is not so hard. Give it time and let your relationship grow and blossom.

[Kiwi303]

It's not just with different national cultures either... I've yet to reach china (getting closer, starting to look for the best ticket deals now for aug '11) but from my days at university as a rural boy dating a city girl.

Citywise meat is expensive... I dated a girl who on a students budget never got anything other than cheap mince, While as a country boy I was living on roast this, roast that, steaks and casseroles of prime meat. Feeding her a dinner of pork, with crackling and all the trimmings ended in her berating me for spending so much money on meat.

Cmon, all it cost was a buck fifty for the bullet, a couple of bags of cheap taters as pre-feed bait, maybe ten bucks worth, and about 30 bucks worth of diesel to head for the hills, less than 50 bucks and I had ten times the amount of prime pork roast packed in the freezer than the same amount of money could buy in cheap mince.

I can emphasise with the women as you relate things, it's not so much frugality for the sake of minerliness, as an eye on the value recieved.

[RobertBfrom aust]

Hey David E , I always say to Sujuan I have got a bargain that she will be pleased with , and that I have saved money most times she is so happy that I have saved money she forgets to ask how much I spent  , she also likes to go clothes shopping here at the big Knox city shopping mall , however after a couple of times I said , I drop you off at the front door and ring me , we are 4 minutes away by car , and then I pick her up again , usually 4 hours later and with maybe 2 dresses in tow , last time for a total of 30 dollars , yes she is frugal , but I am glad not to be on the end of her haggling , regards Sujuan and Robert .

[JamesM.Roberts]

Dear David it is probably a little bit of all three (careful-frugal& obsession)  Ping has told me stories about her childhood that  have brought me to tears. Stories about hardships and how little they had growing up.
One story she told me was about sharing a apple with her brother -sister and cousins-that's one apple cut into eight pieces - and how she had never tasted a apple before, so she was going to save her piece to enjoy the next day- well her older sister ate her piece later that night. Then she told me how she cried the next day( I cried when she told me) mainly because of the guilt I felt, remembering how wasteful I had been in my past.
I can understand how someone would want to make sure they never have to go though hard times again. Just feel honored, that you have found someone, who wants to make sure that you do not know hard times either.

[Rhonald]

David sorry to hear about your troubles on what I do think will be a bit of an issue. It is unfortunate with headstrong women that sometimes logic will not prevail. I hope you can come to a compromise with her.

The sad thing is that if we are as frugal as our girls wish us to be, then why would we have ever considered looking for a wife at all - especially from so far away. The most frugal thing would never to marry and hoard our money. But since we decided on this course of action, we spent money & time because we were looking for quality not a bargin discount.

Maybe if your wife understands that you appreciate quality and that you married her to make your life better is the same reason why you spend money - to make your life better. After all if money is never spent then it is a waste as the sole purpose of money is in its purchasing power and nothing more. Sure we invest and save for future prospects but not at the expense of sabotaging the present.

And I like presents - especially Christmas presents 

[David E]

Thanks for the input Guys.

I will take it all on-board and work out what to do for the best.

Please dont think that I am a wastrel who chucks money around irresponsibly and dont want my LP to interfere.

It is more about the normal "little" things in life we do with our money that makes life easier and more enjoyable.

I can see that Ming and I think differently on this subject. But nobody is right or wrong here. I felt that it was a potential pressure point and I knew that the collective wisdom of all the Bros would put it all into perspective for me...."an ounce of prevention is worth more than a pound of cure " !!!!!!

I will let her have her little "victories" over my "waste" and I think she will eventually reach a happy medium when she gets used to the fact that whatever happens, I will always be a good provider...I am too responsible to let any fiscal harm come to her or me...she will get to know this in time. And when she has her sense of security well established, then maybe she will relax a bit !!

I fully realise that she, and many Chinese women have known real hardship that would make us weep...I can understand that they have a real focus in not going down that track again.

I must be patient.............

Thanks again all......David

[Jason B]

I asked Xia last night during our nightly QQ session if she was frugal and after explaining what it means she did say yes.  OK so she does not like to waste money most people do not, but we ALL have our little excesses that we love to have, in your case cherries in my case making models, in someone else's case it maybe beer or whatever.  What ever it happens to be it is seen as a waste of money by other person.  I do not see this as a waste of money because the way I see it I am not blowing it on gambling or some other vice so what harm is there?  It makes my life a little bit more enjoyable and makes me happy so why should I give that up?  But the other person DOES see it as a waste of money, so how can I get around this so it not something that hangs around like the big elephant in the room that everyone walks around but no one ever mentions and how can I meet her halfway?

My solution and I have talked with Xia about this and she is more than accommodating, is that I have shown her my monthly budget for everything in our life when she comes here, as I have told her that she does not have to work ever again if she does not want to.  IE. mortgage payment, food and bills, insurance, savings for future and savings for holidays.  There is room in our budget to allow us each to have about $100 each to spend on whatever we want and are not be accountable to the other for what the money is spent on.  I do not mean to hide or be deceitful but I can spend the money as I want.  That means if I blow it all on booze, gambling or buying my models that is my business and what she spends her "allowance" on is her business, but I did mention that things like presents for each other, you know those little "I just saw this and thought of you" moments would come out of this money and not savings or food money.  But I can see her saving more of this money than me, but that is her prerogative.

Xia understood this concept and thought that it is a wonderful idea.  I believe her biggest fear and concern and I will admit that I do agree with her, was that the house, food, bills and savings come first and if there was no money left in the budget after that how can I buy something for myself only, which would have been seen as being greedy and not caring when the money should go towards the household somehow.

Might be some food for thought here and a way to settle this issue and a win win for everyone.  Of course everyone's situation will be different as there will be different budgets and priorities.  But I would give up the models in a heart beat if I knew that it may compromise my relationship with Xia, but we all have our own little things we love to do that makes life enjoyable, so if a reasonable solution can be found why should it not be explored?

[JamesM.Roberts]

Dear David and all members,
I want to formally apologize to David (here in front of all) , as it was not my intention, to imply any heavy handedness or irresponsibility on your part. I swear I was only trying to relay a story from Ping's past, that in my mind, shows how her past has shaped how she thinks, and who she is today.
I hope you will accept my apology, as it is heartfelt, and please understand that my reply was my own realization of MY  wasteful and self-centered past. Humbly James

[David E]

James

There is absolutely no need for any apology....period

No offense was taken by me, as with all posts, it is all good information. In fact your (and other )posts made me realise that I just dont have the history and background to truly appreciate what  a hard life is all about....in comparison to my Ming, I have had a very easy life.

I live in a society that is in part compassionate, there is always a Government "safety net" so that I would never have to worry about my next meal (in the worst case scenario)

Your posts made me understand more fully that it will take more time, and more patience on my part to banish from Ming's psyche, the spectre of overspending. She has never had any safety net, even her ex was a drunken slob who spent all their money on booze and mahjong....then he took out a ruinous loan on their apartment and lost that too !! On top of which, he would come home daily, drunk, and beat her if she could not come up with more money to fuel his bad habits.....and I wonder why she is sensitive about money !!!...DUH !!!

So, James...dont give it another thought...I truly appreciate evrybody's advice...thats why I asked for it 

David