My Gripe Box

[kiwisteve]

If you were to close it to registered members only, would Google still index the messages? This was how I found this site when searching for info about a dodgy agency from chnlove. Maybe some topics could be open so there was enough info for Google to trawl.

Steve

[Willy The Londoner]

I was quite perturbed when I put my forum name into Google and found pages relating to me.  Especially when I put in 'squat toilet' and my name.  I mean is that all I am associated with throughout the google world.!!!

Willy

[Martin]

This topic has been discussed quite a bit..as far back as the early Facebook days. We have warnings posted on this forum about internet trolls and being careful about what you want the world to read.

This site is for information..of which there is a lot. I cant see us changing the policy..but it will be discussed with Irishman.

[Martin]

Zombie, do you care to elaborate?

 should not be obt can not be obtained by guests. Guests can not reach the shoutbox.  also guests can not reply to topics.

[Pineau]

 If I want to do basic research I can go to Wikipedia which is free and I don't need to register my ID. But if I want detailed information of any kind, like birth, death, marriage, divorce and other personal individual other than myself, I must register and prove who I am and often pay a fee for the information. If I want to check out a book from the library I need to register and get a library card.

In my original post "recover from an affair" I posted enough information about Jing's boyfriend so that any casual user of Google could identify him, blackmail him, and/or destroy his career. That is one reason I deleted the entire thread which is sad because it contained a lot of real life useful information for other members.

I don't want to get into a tug of war over this but I think that just warning members that there are bad people out there trolling the forum posts is not enough to keep them being open honest and frank when making comments on the forum.

There is a clear and distinct line between general information, pointing people in the right direction to help them on their way and information that is personal in nature and meant to be viewed by the members here that want to share the experience.

I know it would be a lot of work to partition the forum into public and private sections but you only have to do it once.

[Philip]

If you have a need to speak very bad stuff...then sit down and write yourself an email and get it off your chest...better still, get into Politics, get elected President and fix it...other than that...suck it down and   get on with life best you can !!!

I have to agree, not just because Big Brother might be watching. Unfortunately, there is often no clear and distinct line between the two kinds of personal. There is personal meaning private and confidential and there is personal meaning offensive.
I can understand the need to keep some things private on a public forum, we all do that, but if the useful personal info is only available to certified members, the majority of them will be married and experienced on this journey and will be unlikely to need the information as much as the newbies. At the same time, being able to vent might get us into the realm of the political, religious or downright offensive to someone, someone's country, someone's cherished beliefs. Would we expect the moderators to turn a blind eye to something which would break the forum's rules in the 'public' forum? Would they say, 'Oh, he was just venting. He wasn't really blaming (insert person/group) for his predicament'? It is sometimes faceless bureaucrats who make us angry. It is sometimes specific people.
I'm with Shaun. I will go to the woods to let off steam. I don't need an audience.

[john1964]

Hmmm, Stay out of anyone's marriage,, Once we are married there is no room for any friends , male or female??, Some people will ask for ask of advice without the knowledge of their spouse as they can get no advice from anywhere else, WE DON'T LIKE THE IDEA OF OUR WIFE'S HAVING SOME NEW MALE FRIEND UNLESS HE IS" OUR "FRIEND ?, you are saying unless he is approved from the "HUSBAND" Then She has no right to have any male friends?? But I bet you think it is "OK" for the husband to have many female friends ?, AM I CORRECT ? John 

[Rhonald]

John, you should take into consideration the country Zombie states as his own - Cambodia. My first wife immigrated from Central America (traditional Catholic values and Latino male dominated centric views) when she was 17. She became friends with a single male coworker, who inturn became my best friend. My mother-in-law did not like the idea that I would allow my wife the freedom to socialise with my best friend. I trusted my friend, and I trusted my wife.

Since I have a new wife now, I can see Zombie's viewpoint. I will not stop my wife on having new friends, but also if I do not agree with some of her friends, I will no sit ideally by. My first marriage killed the idealist in me.

I will agree with you John, and disagree with Zombie, because at times people do need help. Although getting involved into people's personal lives could be fraught with misinformation, as both sides will feel justified and embellish details to make the other look bad. But sometimes, and usually it is the male, there is danger to the other spouse and/or children.

[Rhonald]

I am western, not Khmer or any other Asian culture. I just live here now.

Sorry for my wrong assumption Zombie.

I agree that without knowing both sides of the story, any advice given could be just advice that the person wants to hear to justify their own postion. Emotions run high with the possibility of marriage break up. If violence is happening, or threatend - then the only offer of help can be to help the person to seek safety. Our western sense of judgment and acting the hero can also blind use as I have heard of cases where the woman will fabricate and also cause personal injury to blackball her spouse, as the usuall assumption is that the man only does violence.

Since I have already lived through one marriage, I understand that sometimes marriages do die. I am not tied by a religious sense that a broken marriage is a failure. Yes I had wished that my marriage succeeded. She wanted to leave.

I think a big understand to realise is that there are bad marriages, but a failed marriage is not BAD. From any failure, it is what you learn and can apply to make your life better that should be considered. A marriage is always a work in progress, but a person's life is more than just the successes they have had. It is usually through failure that most of life's lessons are learned.

[David E]

If a marriage is shaky enough to the point where the fear "a male friend could be considered a potential lover" is in your mind, then a disaster is likely to happen anyway.

I could care less if Ming has male freinds that I dont approve of, because I am certain that if she wanted to throw away our marriage by infidelity, then I cant stop her...there is obviously something wrong with the relationship if she felt the need/desire to go down this track. I am sure a lot of wives and husbands have temptaton AND opportunity to "play away", If that is a fear that keeps you awake, then you dont really have a marriage.

Being married does not imply ownership of either party, the fear of infidelity is a very weak glue for a marriage. I have no right to dictate who she chooses as friends, I can only advise and counsel her, but I cannot ban it....neither would I want to.

[David E]

For some reason I cant edit my last post, but I wanted to add a bit more.....

"These are my values, and in the open Forum that we have here, I have a right to state them. What I DONT have is a right than anybody else has to agree with them. Others must have the right to discuss, debate, challenge or ignore them as they see fit.....I can deal with that !!!!!!

Cheers...David

[Rhonald]

If a marriage is shaky enough to the point where the fear "a male friend could be considered a potential lover" is in your mind, then a disaster is likely to happen anyway.

Infidelity does not necessarily happen because a marriage is on shaky ground, although having a partner caught in this situation can tear apart a marriage. In my case, I didn't find out about the infidelity until later. Part of the reason is that I never considered that she would cheat because I thought that we had a good marriage. She had been cheating with my best friend anywhere from one to three years. She wasn't happy in our marriage and told me that she never let on because she didn't want to break my heart, but with time, couldn't live with the lie.

My pain was threefold: of course the first was feeling a failure at a failed marriage, second that it was her and my best friend and the betrayal of trust, but also third that some how I had contributed to her living in a marriage that was hurting her. With her being a devoted Catholic, I can only imagine the religious guilt she was carrying.

I am also privy to an others story but will not say whom and when he found out that a single man was paying extra attention to his wife, he straight up confronted her and made her make a decision on what came first in her life. I will not stop my wife from having male friends, but I will also not allow her to freely mingle with single men if I am not attending the event. But also in my case, my wife now does not have the same personality as my first wife. My first wife did like to party and drink, and booze is sometimes that toxic excuse that others use to fuel their indiscretions.

[Philip]

If we don't speak from our own value system, where can we speak from? Where do our values come from? It must be from our experience, our upbringing, our culture, our personality.
This is my first marriage and I have not had the misfortune of a previous betrayal to compare with my present situation. I trust my wife implicitly: does that make me naive? Surely if I didn't trust her, that mistrust would have a pretty good chance of breaking the relationship even before any infidelity had a chance of happening. We are both adults and I would hope that we can be honest enough to confront our problems. Using alcohol as an excuse is just plain childish. My wife trusts me, but she lacks a little belief in herself, so she often tells me that if I fall in love with someone else, then she is happy if I am happy. I think this is her way of protecting herself, but she has no need to worry. In fact, in her heart of hearts, she knows that I'm not going anywhere. Part of the problem is the seeds of doubt her friends sow in her mind.
Like most men here, I have to endure enforced periods of absence from my wife. Life would be even more miserable than it is at these times, if I added 'lack of trust from a distance' to the mix. "Where have you been? Who did you go with? Were you ever alone with a man?", etc.
I agree with David, "Being married does not imply ownership of either party, the fear of infidelity is a very weak glue for a marriage". If my wife and I didn't trust each other, we would make for a pretty sorry pair. "That money I gave you, what exactly did you spend it on? Where are the receipts? That time I called you last week. Did I hear a man's voice in the background?"
I don't really care if a Chinese husband is typically more possessive than a Western husband. My values don't come from following types or stereotypes. I am a little possessive myself, though not jealous, and recognize it as a fault of mine rather than just accept it.  My wife can freely mingle with whomsoever she likes. If she needs my permission or my presence to do so, all I can say is, it will be a pretty depressing evening for everyone.

[Rhonald]

I trust my wife implicitly: does that make me naive? Surely if I didn't trust her, that mistrust would have a pretty good chance of breaking the relationship even before any infidelity had a chance of happening. We are both adults and I would hope that we can be honest enough to confront our problems.........My wife can freely mingle with whomsoever she likes. If she needs my permission or my presence to do so, all I can say is, it will be a pretty depressing evening for everyone.

The setting of boundaries is not about the idea of having trust but insuring an increased chance of a solid marriage. A lock's main deterant is not that it protects us from evil people but that it keeps honest people honest. The main reason I trusted my first wife and my friend was the naive outlook that since I trusted myself that I would never cheat, they would act the same. This of course I see was foolish and naive. But it is not just infidelity that can be addressed. In the future one partner could develop an addiction - let us suppose a gambling addiction. What now are the odds that any new friend that likes to gamble would be looked upon favorably by the other partner!

22 percent of married men have strayed at least once during their married lives.
14 percent of married women have had affairs at least once during their married lives.
Younger people are more likely candidates; in fact, younger women are as likely as younger men to be unfaithful.
70 percent of married women and 54 percent of married men did not know of their spouses' extramarital activity.
5 percent of married men and 3 percent of married women reported having sex with someone other than their spouse in the year1997.
22 percent of men and 14 percent of women admitted to having sexual relations outside their marriage sometime in their past.
90 percent of Americans believe adultery is morally wrong.
50 percent of Americans say President Clinton's adultery makes his moral standard "about the same as the average married man,'' according to a Time-CNN poll.
61 percent of Americans thought adultery should not be a crime in the United states; 35 percent thought it should; 4 percent had no opinion.
17 percent of divorces in the United States are caused by infidelity.
Source: Associated Press

Recent studies reveal that 45-55% of married women and 50-60% of married men engage in extramarital sex at some time or another during their relationship (Atwood & Schwartz, 2002 - Journal of Couple & Relationship Therapy)

I post these above notes not to say live in fear of infidelity as I do not think my wife or I will cheat. And I think it is quite different that your spouse can engage in conversation when meeting friends in passing, this is just being socialable. When a woman moves in to live with us we already accept the fact that some of our own personal behaviours will change or be modified. If children are introduced, we modify even more, so why is it assumed that believing that our wives are also asked to modify her social sphere, as a negative?

When I became serious with my wife during or EMF campaign, I voluntarily took my profile off of being visible & she did the same after. In my mind that is no different than expressing a comment on who we each befriend.

[David E]

When you look at those stats Rhon, about the rates of adultery etc.  does it not hammer home the real truth .....you cannot conceive of any mechanism that will totally prevent a lot of partners straying from the straight and narrow !! You can bluff, bully, cajole, threaten, intimidate either partner into fidelity...but sooner or later an opportunity could well present itself where somebody stumbles.

I am sure that all of us have these opportunities pass our way quite often...so why do we, or do we NOT succumb to the temptation

Morality hardly figures nowadays, I am told that adulterers can still go to Heaven, and apart from some of our more lunatic cultures, the Law or the Church wont execute you for it either.

Fear of the social stigma of getting caught and exposed to your peers is not much of a threat either.

Our modern children have become accepting of single parent families due to marriage breakups, usually via adultery.

Our Legal systems basically care only about the fiscal arrangements, not the moral ones.

So there are no deterrents..........only that of the desire of both parties to continue a monogamous relationship.

What I believe is that, free from "artificial" impediments, the human animal is reverting to type and behaving just as most, repeat most ,of the natural world behaves....ie monogamy is a human made condition that is unnatural....(yes, I know you can quote a few examples in nature of monogamous pairings, but these are a tiny statistical minority).

So live each day in the knowlege that the only thing that keeps us together is our basic desire to be with the other partner.....for as long as it suits each other's individual drives and needs....nothing can be guaranteed and all the rules, regulations and restrictions wont mean a fig if either party feels the need to stray.

I cannot agree that removing an active profile from CHNLove has any relevance to who either party could and will be-friend down the track...it is not the same thing. In these early days it represents only a single act of good faith...not a permission to then dictate how a Partner will run his or her life into the future relationship.

And finally to Zombie.........I also cannot see where any different morality or any different Man could have prevented your wife from "falling prey" to a scum-bag.........it was her choice, she weighed up the pros and cons and made a decision.....sadly you lost...but ultimately everybody lost. If there was zero need...she would have zero response to such an approach.

It is similar to the scammer issue we all face in International/Internet Dating.....if you never send money...you never get scammed and scammers cease to exist.

If there was never a need ( of whatever definition) for a partner to stray, then monogamy would rule and adultery would be just a theory...and not the very common reality we are seeing in our "modern" world.