Remembrance Day

[Willy The Londoner]

Today is Remembrance Day in the UK. At the 11th hour on the 11th day of the 11th month the country remembers those who paid the highest prices in conflicts around the world.

I watched it live on the BBC. There are often things that come to mind, like the fact that I always was in awe of the old 1914 - 1918 war veterans with lines of medals marching in London.  Now there are none surviving to march.  I am definately getting old!

Then you get a fact that strikes home that 300,000 Aussie soldiers joined the war and more than 1/5th of them were killed.

And the killing for politicians continues.

Willy

[Rhonald]

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
       Between the crosses, row on row,
    That mark our place; and in the sky
    The larks, still bravely singing, fly
 Scarce heard amid the guns below.
 
We are the Dead. Short days ago
 We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
    Loved and were loved, and now we lie
          In Flanders fields.
 
Take up our quarrel with the foe:
 To you from failing hands we throw
    The torch; be yours to hold it high.
    If ye break faith with us who die
 We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
          In Flanders fields.

[joeswuhandream]

i  agree WILLY  with your words
on this sad day,  that many people remember the atrocities that have happend in the past and are still happening today ,
weather for power or geed ,  politicans  need to hold there heads in shame .
Hear in the UK my parents thought for a better life for us ,
my parents  were lucky they survived the second world war , to bring peacetime and a better future for generations to come
i and very embarrassed with England  in may ways   
the politicans have much to answer for oh yes they do 
MY THOUGHT with the  people around the world who lost  family in the wars and are still doing
a famous musician who died many years ago  said in a song of his  ,all we are saying is give peace a chance
god rest john Lennon 

[Martin]

Lest we forget.

[Rhonald]

And here I though Remembrance day was a day set a side for remembering the war dead, whose sacrifice helped protect our way of life, and yes and even protecting our freedom of speech. I waited until today to bluntly criticize this blame I see just directed to politicians. Because, eventhough politicans can have a wide definition, since we are all political creatures, the term Politician usually also implies democracies.

No mention about warlords, drug lords, dictators or religious zealots, just a broad sweeping blame put upon politicians. Yes I agree that we have had bad leaders in democracies that have driven us to war. But sometimes war is the only course when diplomacy fails. WWI should never needed to be fought, but because of jingoism, the European powers were just too eager to see their boys with toys in action. This was a terrible war using terrible tactics that caused unjustly causalities.

This war was naively called "The war to end war" by H.G. Wells as ironically many wars are justified as such. Also the ensuing Peace treaty from this war laid the seeds for WWII. Yes Hitler got elected as a politician, but he turned Germany into a dictatorship. And sorry Joeswuhandadream but Neville Chamberlain had already tried this approach with Hitler as he spoke
,"My good friends, this is the second time there has come back from Germany to Downing Street peace with honour. I believe it is peace for our time. We thank you from the bottom of our hearts. Now I recommend you go home, and sleep quietly in your beds".
 It is sad that his policy of appeasement never worked and once again we plunged into war. And a good thing we never stayed sleeping in our beds, otherwise I am sure the Beetles would still just be an insect.

It is sad that we have a holiday called Remembrance Day. I finished watching a good anti war, World War One move entitled Passchendaele. It is a Canadian film that stars Paul Gross. And as the veteran Michael Dunn, I quote from his movie,
 "Listen to me. Forests burn 'cos they have to. And oceans, they go up and down 'cos they have to. I don't think we're that different. If you want to get through this you have to start seeing it for what it is. It's something we do all the time because we're good at it. And we're good at it because we're used to it. And we're used to it because we do it all the time."

So I do not blame politicans for wars. It is man that creates wars. There are enough of mankind that wants to wage war, and until we can expunge this desire from us, there will be many more days of remembrance. 

[Willy The Londoner]

Point taken. But how many conflicts are started by the whim of a politician?

The Falklands and Iraq are just two recent conflicts started on the whim of political leaders.

When we sent our forces to the Falkland Islands USA was backing us with words. We spent billions of pounds going to war over a couple of islands that we disputed ownership with Argentina over.   (Now the USA are backing Argentina in the continuing verbal dispute but that is by and by.)

Now in Asia there is a dispute over the even smaller uninhabited islands that on one hand Japan say they are ours and China says they are ours.  I have seen these islands they are just a few bits of rock where you could hardly build a runway for a vertical take off plane, but problems they have caused with America not giving their opinion either way but just stating that an attack on any of Japans territory will be an attack on America.

Mind you this problem has caused more problems for Japan as their exports to here have collapsed whilst China's economic growth is on the up.

Willy

[Rhonald]

But how many conflicts are started by the whim of a politician?

The Falklands and Iraq are just two recent conflicts started on the whim of political leaders.


Willy

Yes Bush trumped up fake evidence to drive the USA into Iraq. But democratic leaders do have a more difficult time bringing their countries to war then other forms of government since democracies have to contend with public opinion. The ironic thing about the Falkland war was that neither country officially declared war on the other. And eventhough the islands was an ongoing dispute, it was a military Junta that decided to invade the island, not a democracy. The junta was facing increasing opposition over its human rights record, as well as mounting allegations of corruption, sought to allay domestic criticism by launching a successful campaign to regain the islands. They figured that a successful campaign would make them popular, but alas, they did not take into account the Iron Lady.

This Asian islands you talk about the Diaoyu/Senkaku island chain are in strategic terms a barrier or choke-point channelling the Chinese Navy's access to the wider ocean. Also the area is near the Chunxiao gas fields, thus the interests of not just China & Japan, but Russia has got involved as well. Japan is also involved with Korea over an other island dispute of the Dokdo island. Talk about Islands in the media stream!

[Willy The Londoner]

I think we should add the attempt was unsuccessful but cost 244 British and 650 Argentinian lives.

A high price to pay for a couple of islands with a little over 3000 inhabitants.

Willy

[Rhonald]

Argentina Dirty War 1976 - 1983 saw an estimate of 10,000 - 30,000 deaths due to the military Junta. That averages from 4 - 12 deaths per day for this government. The Falkland campaign lasted 72 days that works out to 9 Argentine soldier deaths a day. About the same causality rate, but the Falkland war was what ended up causing the collapse of the Junta, not their persecution of their own people!

It's a shame that England felt the need to tackle the Islands and lose its soldiers, but as I quoted before, individuals and countries alike, seem to want to rattle sabres and posture who is the toughest.