Our Story

[Willy The Londoner]

Smaug,  you've received a lot of good advice here.  Here is one more kink you should consider.  By virtue of the fact that you were not divorced when you went to China and are still married and you are still living in the same house with your current wife your future wife will have a tremendous battle during the interview.  If I were you I'd find another part-time job and move out.  Deliver pizza if you must.  You've already stepped in it as far as the interviewer is concerned.  You need to do something about it.

Not to worry Shaun.

He has decided it is going to be a walk in the park for get her and her son a visa to go and live with him and then return to China and then return to the USA and maybe marry sometime or not in the future.

I think if he had to experience the trials and tribulations of the USA Immigrations  that you have been going through for a couple of years and still undergoing then he may change his mind.

Willy

[Pineau]

Smaug. Maybe she gets a little special treatment because of her job with a USA company and can get a visitors VISA easily, But tourists and immigrants are a world apart.

No judgments here but just a fact the could cause you trouble later on. It is their job to look into all possibilities of why you are getting married and whether or not it is a sincere and bonafied marriage. They will dig into both of your backgrounds and look under every rock to find any reason to suspect this is a fraudulent marriage.  Someone  could easily label her as a home wrecking " other woman" and you as an adulterer. They could possibly deny her when she applies for immigration.  The process is full of pitfalls and obstacles for the squeaky clean family based i-130. You have already gone too far for the by posting your relationship and marital status here on a public forum.
Get divorced and get out of the house now. If you don't your just helping them build a case for denial.

[Martin]

Smug...figured I would chime in here. First off, you have been getting a lot of great advice here. Something to consider, is that all the guys replying to you all have personal experiences in this area. Also, many of these guys have seen many others come through this site before you, so our experiences are not just limited to our own stories.

Keep in mind the cultural and language differences. This can not be over stated. And Maxx's 24 hour rule is something you should practice.

I wish you all the best of luck in this adventure of yours.  It sounds like you will have some stressful days ahead of you.

[Smaug]

Not to worry Shaun.

He has decided it is going to be a walk in the park for get her and her son a visa to go and live with him and then return to China and then return to the USA and maybe marry sometime or not in the future.

Why are you still riding me, Willy? Just because I don't agree with you on every little point doesn't mean I'm A Bad Person or that we're doomed to fail. How about showing some support and giving some constructive feedback, like the others are doing, instead of just criticizing everything I've done so far?

I think if he had to experience the trials and tribulations of the USA Immigrations  that you have been going through for a couple of years and still undergoing then he may change his mind.

Do you remember that my ex wife is Polish?, we went through that immigration process before, and without a lawyer. This time, I will hire a lawyer, to help make it smooth. Will it take years, as you said? Maybe, but I sure hope not. We'll try to make it NOT take years.

[Smaug]

The divorce was finalized two weeks ago; we settled.

I moved out Saturday. aaaand Sunday. Getting the rest of my stuff out by the 8th. Setting up the apartment now.

I negotiated a decent visitation schedule as part of the settlement: I will have my daughter overnight two nights per week; one week night, and one weekend night. Then, one evening for dinner.

I booked airfare to visit my lady in June; she booked airfare to come with her son to visit me in July. I may visit again in October, if she cannot come permanently this year.

My family is getting a little jealous of my vacation time. My sister and her family in California want me to come out, and my grandfather in Georgia wants to meet his grand granddaughter. I saved a few days for him, since he's 92, he won't be around forever.

[Willy The Londoner]

I just tell it how I see it. (But usually not three months after I make a response.)

Maybe I was right maybe I was wrong but only time will tell which one of us was right. 

As Pineau said vacation visa and immigration visa are two different things.

But it also should be pointed out that as a Polish person your former wife had a much easier route into the USA as an immigrant than a Chinese lady will ever encounter.  Married or not.

I wish you well in the coming months.

Willy

[Smaug]

Leaving to China two weeks for today.

Talked to an immigration attorney and scheduled a meeting for a week from today. We'll see what she says.

I think I'll go and do some reading on immigration now to try to figure out the best immigration route. It seems there are three options:

a) fiancé
b) married, stays here while we wait
c) married, but she goes back to China and goes on with her life there while we wait.

What's the easiest route?

The attorney didn't seem to want to say much; maybe she's afraid if she advises me, we will apply ourselves instead of having them do it. She did say that it doesn't matter if I was married before, and to whom, only that I am not married now.

[Vince G]

I am not sure if your misinformed or not making yourself clear? There are 2 visa's 1) K-1 Fiancé(e) Visa, after applying is a 9 month+ wait to come to the US to marry within 90 days. OR 2) K-3 and V1/V2 U.S. Entry Visa which is used for marrying in China and applied for. Takes +/- a year for approval.

If you marry in China you will need proof that you are not married.

I'm sure there will be others adding onto what to do.

[Robertt S]

Here is a comparison table of each type visa available for bringing fiancees or spouses to the United States. The K-3 visa is rarely used anymore because the processing times for the IR-1 and CR-1 visa have sped up over the years making the K-3 obsolete. If someone does file the K-3 it is usually converted over to the CR-1/IR-1 visa at the NVC level.

Marriage Based Visa Comparison Table

Visa Type	Marital Status	Approximate Time to get Visa	Requires Adjustment of Status?	Requires EAD to Work (with valid Visa and before AOS approved)?	Requires AP to Travel Outside the US (with valid Visa and before AOS approved)?	Approximate Total Time to become Legal Permanent Resident	Approximate Total Cost (USCIS Petition, Visa, AOS if required)	Extra Notes
K-1	Engaged	9 Months	Yes	Yes	Yes	12.5 Months	USD $1650	Must be married within 90 days of entry. AOS must be filed in order to gain Legal Permanent Resident status. Failure to file AOS before I-94 expires accrues out-of-status days.
K-3	Married	9.5 Months	Yes	Yes	No	13 Months	USD $1705	After entering the US, may file for AOS within two years or instead wait for I-130 to be approved and pursue IR-1 / CR-1 Visa.
IR-1 / CR-1	Married	11 Months	No	No (see note)	No (see note)	11 Months	USD $903	Visa holder automatically becomes a Legal Permanent Resident after entering the US. Can work and travel freely.
DCF (IR-1 / CR-1)	Married	3 Months	o	No (see note)	No (see note)	3 Months	USD $945	US consulates typically only do this for US citizens who live overseas. DCF results in a IR-1 / CR-1 Visa.

 

I chose the CR-1 visa path and used the electronic processing at NVC , from filing date to interview date was approximately 6.5 months. I will have to check to see what the current filing times are now though. The main thing is to document everything you and her do together ( with pictures, receipts, boarding passes, family dinners, touring, and just casual around the town stuff like couples normally engage in.) Good Luck, Robert

[Robertt S]

Smaug,

   Your third option of marrying here, she returns to China while you two wait for the visa to be approved is not really an option because it is covered by the first option ie;( fiancee visa). The only visa that can be used to obtain that result is the tourist visa. That being said, there is many risks to using the tourist visa for that reason. If she receives a tourist visa to come her and then you two marry, you will now have the pleasure of attempting to convince USCIS that you did not plan this in advance in an attempt to avoid normal processing protocol. If you can not convince them that you did not plan this in advance your wife can be banned from entering the USA for life. I would think real, real hard before attempting this ruse.

Basically, your options are

K-1:  filing the 129F and waiting for approval ( she waits in China)
K-3: obsolete will most likely be converted at NVC to CR-1, marry in China and still requires her to wait in China until the 129F is approved by the consulate
CR-1: file the I-130 after you marry in China and wait. She waits in China
DCF: you have to reside in China 6 months on a residence or employment visa prior to filing the I-130 in China at the consulate and she waits in China, plus you have the added burden to prove US domicile beyond a shadow of doubt.
IR-1: same requirements as the CR-1, except she will receive the 10 year green card when she enters the USA ( assuming you have been married 2 years or longer prior to entry to the USA.)

[Willy The Londoner]

I think that excellent advice from our resident Immigration Guru, Robertt should be well heeded.

Try to circumvent the system and you head for stormy seas.  From what I have heard from the Americans on here it is best not to go it alone but to use a good Immigration lawyer.

The getting married in China and waiting here does have it drawbacks in so much some have had to be here for time spreading beyond a year or so and it is hard for some westerners to handle what could be an interminable sentence.  Teaching is one of the options in this time.

I think you will enjoy your time in China in a couple of weeks time.

Willy

[Robertt S]

  I have a question. Doesn't the immigration papers ask when your prior divorce was?
  Now don't get me wrong here as I am not trying to put a damper on things. But in
  this case 2 weeks after the divorce and off to China.

  I would have so much documentation proof because this will be a red flag I think when
  it comes time to approve the visa.

  Her coming here for work really has no bearing on immigration as they are looking for
  sincerity in the relationship. Not if she has been here.

  Sorry just a concern I have for this situation and not trying to be a downer.

Yes, the I-130 specifically asks for prior spouses names and the date the marriages were LEGALLY terminated ( Separated is not considered legally terminated ) on lines 11 & 12 for both the petitioner and beneficiary. Also, if you plan to use a lawyer I would use a few test questions before choosing one. Since China is considered a HIGH FRAUD country I would look for one that has immigration experience for China ( China has many extra steps that most countries do not require). I would seek one who has experience with electronic processing because this process has been around a few years now. I would also think twice about using one that insists using the K-3 process. The reason many lawyers insist using the K-3 process is because of all the extra forms and steps required from start to finish.( Many lawyers charge per form) and the K-3 requires an I-130 and an I-129F to be filed at the onset , Homeland Security does not charge a fee for the I-129F(when filed with the K-3) but most lawyers do charge a fee to complete the form even though they know your case will most likely be converted at the NVC level making the I-129F null and void. I also think that any lawyer that insists using the K-3 is attempting to run up extra charges or does not stay current with immigration processes, so your case might be delayed while your layer comes back up to speed or actually learns the current immigration processes at your expense. If I understand correctly, Smaug also said his previous wife was an immigrant from Poland, that will also add a small amount of extra scrutiny to your application if your previous wife is an immigrant and I would plan for some added hoops to jump through! In my PERSONAL opinion a lawyer can only work with the facts you supply, they can not withhold facts from immigration on your behalf or attend the interview, they transfer the information you supply to forms and then mail the forms to USCIS for you for a fee. Most people can do all this themselves. Basically a lawyer is most useful if your fiancee or wife's visa is denied, and then only if they are APPROVED to practice before the Immigration Board. So if you decide to use a lawyer make certain they have experience with China, they are licensed to practice before the immigration board, and they are current to the latest immigration processing guidelines/requirements.

Regards, Robert

P.S. The I-129F used for the K-1 ( Fiancee visa ) also asks for previous marriages and termination dates on lines 9 & 10. And as an added bonus you are required to comply with this regulation when using the I-129F or fiancee visa to bring your girlfriend here. http://www.uscis.gov/USCIS/Laws/Memoranda/Static_Files_Memoranda/Archives%201998-2008/2006/imbra072106.pdf

[Smaug]

Smaug,

   Your third option of marrying here, she returns to China while you two wait for the visa to be approved is not really an option because it is covered by the first option ie;( fiancee visa). The only visa that can be used to obtain that result is the tourist visa. That being said, there is many risks to using the tourist visa for that reason. If she receives a tourist visa to come her and then you two marry, you will now have the pleasure of attempting to convince USCIS that you did not plan this in advance in an attempt to avoid normal processing protocol. If you can not convince them that you did not plan this in advance your wife can be banned from entering the USA for life. I would think real, real hard before attempting this ruse.

Thanks Robertt for your advice. I went and talked to a lawyer, and we are going to use the Fiancé visa path, K-1. She said the same thing you did, regarding marrying her, then naturalizing her as my wife. She said it would probably be fine, but that they might thing we got married JUST to get her here. She advised waiting any additional time and using the K-1 path. She works for a law firm that specializes in this. (I'm lucky to live near Chicago, which has a big Chinese population and its own Chinatown) We'll end up paying a big chunk of money in fees to file the forms, and wait 13 months (that will be hard!) but it seems to be the safest path.

One thing she said was that USCIS keeps charging more and more, saying it is to speed up the system. But then it never speeds up. More gvt corruption, great. This is why we have immigration problems here. Our government has tried to make immigration into a profit center, and it literally costs thousands of dollars to immigrate here. These poor Mexicans can't afford it, so they sneak over, and it gets even harder and slower for the rest of us.

I asked her about my previous marriage, and she said it wouldn't be a problem. As long as we are legally divorced, that's all that matters.

***

'had a great time in China, saw some Dragon boat races. Cemented our relationship more.

She's coming here two weeks from tomorrow for two weeks. I'm sure that'll be nice too.

**

One quick question for the forum: I see that I'm supposed to document things we've done together. Dinners, local events, etc. How do I do this? For example, I have tickets for us to go to a car race and a classical music concert. But it is just two tickets with my name on it.

If I take a picture of us eating dinner together in my kitchen, how does that prove it was actually in the US? For that matter, how do they know that all of the pictures I provided were not staged within a period of a one day visit?

If I provide letters between us, how do they know we didn't just fabricate them just for the interview?

[Robertt S]

" If I provide letters between us, how do they know we didn't just fabricate them just for the interview?"

Save the postmarked envelopes showing the letters transit through the postal system. I recommend using e-mails because they are time stamped and dated and are easy to save and print. You can use phone records also such as your telephone bill with charges to her number.
   Good Luck and Best Wishes, Robertt


P.S. I noticed you said she will be arriving in 2 weeks for a 2 week visit. If you really wanted to put the icing on your cake I recommend having some nice pictures made while she is here and place a formal Engagement/Wedding Announcement in the legal organ ( newspaper ) for your hometown. You can then add the engagement announcement page in with your evidence when you submit the I-129F for the K-1. Just be sure to enclose the whole newspaper page with the newspaper name and date so they will know it is a real paper That would help your case by showing this was a well thought out process and not just some spur of the moment decision.

[Robertt S]

Here is a list of items that can be used for evidence of a bonafide relationship. Nobody will have all this stuff so just use what you have. This gives you an idea as to what to save for the future process though. Your photos can be stamped and you also need to make sure you submit pictures that were taken over the entire time period she was here. The US does not stamp your passport but China does so you can send copies of your passport with entry and exit stamps also.

1. Evidence of Communication Before and After Marriage

• Phone bills showing who called whom
• Letters
• Greeting cards
• Chat logs
• Emails / PM’s
• Delivery receipts (of gifts you send each other)

2. Evidence of Visits / Vacations / Meeting in Person

• Boarding passes
• Passport stamps
• Hotel receipts with both your names
• Vacation / honeymoon photos
• Receipts or bank statements showing remote ATM withdrawals (to show you were pulling money from that location at such time)

3. Evidence of Co-habitation During Marriage

• Birth certificates of any children born to you together
• Mortgage loan contract or lease contract with both partners’ names in it
• Utility bills with both partners’ names
• Receipts with both partners’ names in shipping/billing address
• Pictures of you two living together

4. Evidence of Joint Ownership of Assets and Shared Financial Responsibility

• Joint bank account statements
• Proof of joint credit card use
• Money transfer receipts
• Power of Attorney
• Wills (never used this)
• Utility bills
• Life insurance policy showing spouse as beneficiary
• Health insurance
• Car insurance

5. Photographic Evidence

• Photos of you two together
• Photos of you two with family (such as wedding, parties, kids’ graduation, etc.)
• Photos of you two in various locations and times

6. Evidence from Others in Support of Bona Fide Marriage

• Sworn affidavits of friends and/or family
• Letters/cards from friends and/or family