China again, September - October

[Arnold]

Sly , I know it's not good news ... but You and I know all is not lost yet . Heck , knowing the fighter you are and Liyan seems to be right there in that catagory .. you have to work on the Mom and Liyan on the Brother's help on this . You said it yourself  , both of you need a GOOD plan and work it together equally . I realize it is hard from the other side of the World , but a Man in Love will alway's find a way and she'll do the same if the Love shared is Mutual .
It makes me wish , these Agencies would only take on Ladies that have the approval already from their Parent's before signing up . Would be soo much simpler for all .

[Sylvain D]

Arnold, you're so right...
by the way, as Liyan is ill those last days, she doesn't really want to do anything... nor to talk to her parents, nor to talk about papers, it seems.
I'm still waiting news from her, since my mail yesterday night, even if there, it's 02:25 pm.
I hope she's gone to see another doctor, even if she dislikes it.
Maybe some news only tonight...

Wel.
I need to make a good plan, for sure, and I hope Liyan will do all her best for that, too.
Maybe I'll go there back in end of June or in July, one week... I have to see.
But the aim about my next trip is to meet her parents. As we say, never 2 without 3, and it'll be my third trip to see Liyan.
I hope that trip would be very good. and helpful for each of us.

[mustfocus]

Sylvain,

I'm curious, but have you met Liyan's parents?  I don't recall reading about that part.  What I would suggest is that at the first opportunity, you go meet her parents.  That will go a long way to easing this issue.  Another thing is to learn more than just a few simple phrases.  Xie Xie and Ni Hao will only get you so far.  But asking them for their daughter's hand in marriage in mandarin would go a long way as well.

The point is to show your intent.  I don't know if having Qing call on your behalf would help.  As generous as the offer is, Liyan's mother doesn't know who Qing is.  If Liyan's brother and any of Liyan's friends who have met you can talk to her, that would make a difference. Remember, it's who you and they know.  Not some strangers.  Case in point, Ronan's friend Yamaha.

I'm also not sure how big the chinese community is in France.  But a "presentation" showing how Liyan would be happy there wouldn't hurt as well.

Not sure if any of this is of any help, but I hope it is.

[Sylvain D]

Little update.
Liyan just wrote me... Sad news because she doesn't have any passport...
Well...  
Now we must "work" on a very good plan and on her mother. And I must learn more and more chinese, hoping to be able to meet her parents in my next trip.
If not... that would be very very bad, I think...
Let's keep some hope. & wish.

MustFocus, sorry, i didn't see your post.
So, no, I've never met her parents because the first time, they didn't want to see me nor to hear about me.
The 2d time, the mama didn't want to see me, and Liyan's sister could't help Liyan because of their mother.
My chinese is a bit some poor sometimes, I can say some sentences but still difficult to "understand" when someone replies to me in chinese... except a few sentences...
It seems that they worry a lot about Liyan and that anyway, her mother really wants to marry her with a chinese man, but Liyan always says "no" to her mother...
Liyan also told her mama about me when we were in BJ (2d trip) and her mama was surprized and asked some questions...
Maybe you're right, by learning more and more chinese, I'd like to meet them and to ask Liyan's hand to her parents, and maybe Kiki (Liyan's best friend) and maybe some other friends or her brother, could help too.

I don't know...
I can also do some "researchs" about chinese community in France, and in Paris, too, because I live in the suburbs.

Thanks anyway for your reply

[ttwjr32]

Sly,
souds like the mom is old school? will Liyan be able to turn her around
and let her to accept that she is not marrying a chinese man?

[Sylvain D]

Ted, I willy for it, for sure.
And Liyan seems to know what she wants...
So, I just can cross all my fingers the best I can and pray for that to work...
and hope to meet her parents soon....
I've ordered 2 books to learn more about chinese language. Because I want to be very good ASAP... even if it will be difficult... but well.. I must do it.

[ttwjr32]

your right we do need to learn their language also as it is
not right for us to expect them only to make changes. it is
a two way street

[Sylvain D]

The more i can learn, the more I can help Liyan too. Love is love

[brett]

Sly - have you got a Chinese teacher? I'm going to classes, it's a great way to learn. There were only two of us students today so that was pretty intensive.

I've got to tell you, if a Chinese lady wants to teach you Chinese there's no place to hide!!!! Today hongs and huangs were being forced into my brain. I won't forget the Chinese words for different colours in a hurry.

:icon_cheesygrin:

[David5o]

Hahaha..... Oh Dear!!!! ....Now i'm going to confuse the whole issue..... Lucy is adamant that you no longer need the Brown book to marry, but you do need for applying for your first passport. The only thing she's not sure of is, if it's different when you are marrying a foreigner!!!

She has her Brown book here with her, she says's it's just basic information that's recorded. Also she says that most of these brown books are rarely kept uptodate by the family.... For example, there is no record of her divorce in hers, she says it's just too much trouble to get these things recorded, but she does have her green divorce book...lol!!....

Lucy said, that many people in China are confused about most official requirements in general, as the government and local authorities are always changing the rules. So they tend to take all official documents with them when applying for anything to do with, or associated with National and Local government...

She also commented that these brown books were once very important, in her parents day, but now hold little importance, the National ID card has long since taken over from these books.
They issue these books when you are married, and you update the thing as and when babies are born, get divorced, School/education record etc. But these days, separate birth and death certificates are issued, school graduation certs issued, etc,etc So these books that were once the sole record of a family, are almost redundant in present day China...

Well that's Lucy's explanation to me, on the matter of these Brown books.

David.........

[Arnold]

Tell Lucy thanks for that info . David . I did not feel that while we did all the run around with Paper's , but I can see it perfectly going this way as she said .. along with other Cultural things .

[Sylvain D]

Brett, in fact I got one teacher before going to see Liyan, but I didn't call her since a few months.. .  I think I'll use her teaching lessons again, even if she's 30€ / 1 hour. It is also useful. I even ordered 2 books to learn more and more about chinese. So I must improve the best I can, and ASAP

David,
Thx for your news, so, if I really understand, maybe in a few time, the family book will become useless? But if Liyan needs to have a passport,  actually, she really needs to get that paper.

And to add some small update :
I talked to Liyan today, I told her I had ordered 2 books to learn chinese more and more, and that I would really send something to her mama, like some flowers... Now, Liyan agrees but there is another "problem". As Liyan works in Zs (Zhongshan), she is 2 hours from Gz by bus... so, would flowers be very "good" after so much travelling??? I don't think so...
Maybe one thing that can also be good... to find a good place in Gz where I could send the flowers, then Liyan could get it and go with it to see her parents. She is also ok for me to send some things for her papa (and even her brother & sister). So, it is a good news. I just have to find an idea about Gz & flowers. Maybe asking Chinaroses for example to call Liyan when they can have some flowers ready for her mama?
She told me that (I can't believe that... haha), her mama is scared because she thinks I could sell Liyan once I'll be back in France (bai ni mai le) ==  I SELL YOU
it is also "funny" because Liyan teached me that sentence, but for sure, I don't want to be with Liyan in France to sell her... but even Liyan laughed about that.
Liyan is also ok for me to send a letter to her parents, talking about me, about Paris, and I would talk about chinese people in Paris too. And sending some photos about me & my family.
Liyan thinks that is a very good idea.
About her friends, they can't help because of family affairs, when family needs talking something important, friends are just nothing. I think the brotherhood can clearly understand all that.
Maybe her brother could help, but Liyan must see about that.
Tomorrow she will go to the doctor because still ill.. she can't eat very well because she is ill just next...

Well.
I will look for nice gifts to send to Liyan and her family soon. Maybe some food from Paris and some "little gifts with the Eiffel Tower, photos about the "chinatown in paris" , and maybe some other things.
I need to see.

[mustfocus]

Brett, in fact I got one teacher before going to see Liyan, but I didn't call her since a few months.. .  I think I'll use her teaching lessons again, even if she's 30€ / 1 hour. It is also useful. I even ordered 2 books to learn more and more about chinese. So I must improve the best I can, and ASAP

David,
Thx for your news, so, if I really understand, maybe in a few time, the family book will become useless? But if Liyan needs to have a passport,  actually, she really needs to get that paper.

And to add some small update :
I talked to Liyan today, I told her I had ordered 2 books to learn chinese more and more, and that I would really send something to her mama, like some flowers... Now, Liyan agrees but there is another "problem". As Liyan works in Zs (Zhongshan), she is 2 hours from Gz by bus... so, would flowers be very "good" after so much travelling??? I don't think so...
Maybe one thing that can also be good... to find a good place in Gz where I could send the flowers, then Liyan could get it and go with it to see her parents. She is also ok for me to send some things for her papa (and even her brother & sister). So, it is a good news. I just have to find an idea about Gz & flowers. Maybe asking Chinaroses for example to call Liyan when they can have some flowers ready for her mama?
She told me that (I can't believe that... haha), her mama is scared because she thinks I could sell Liyan once I'll be back in France (bai ni mai le) ==  I SELL YOU
it is also "funny" because Liyan teached me that sentence, but for sure, I don't want to be with Liyan in France to sell her... but even Liyan laughed about that.
Liyan is also ok for me to send a letter to her parents, talking about me, about Paris, and I would talk about chinese people in Paris too. And sending some photos about me & my family.
Liyan thinks that is a very good idea.
About her friends, they can't help because of family affairs, when family needs talking something important, friends are just nothing. I think the brotherhood can clearly understand all that.
Maybe her brother could help, but Liyan must see about that.
Tomorrow she will go to the doctor because still ill.. she can't eat very well because she is ill just next...

Well.
I will look for nice gifts to send to Liyan and her family soon. Maybe some food from Paris and some "little gifts with the Eiffel Tower, photos about the "chinatown in paris" , and maybe some other things.
I need to see.

Hey Sly,

It's great that you're making the effort.  Although you haven't spent any time with the parents, what about her brother and sister?  If friends can't influence the parents (and if they're not that close, I can understand that), try another way to get in.  If you've spent time with her brother and sister, then they can be your advocates.

Or Liyan can keep hammering away at her parents and they might relent...  It doesn't hurt.  Also try sending pictures of you in every day life at home and work... just more tools to help convince them that you can provide for her.

[Sylvain D]

mustfocus, in fact, I've never seen her sister and her brother, nor her best friend Kiki. But it seems that on my next trip, we'll reach stat step. Because her best friends really likes me, (so does her Papa, it seems, even if he's not Liyan's Papa), and I'm working on the letter to send to Liyan's Mama.
I hope to be able to meet Liyan's brother & sister, too. That would be very good, for sure.

About hammering away at her parents, I think that she's still working on it. But I don't know "why" she says me that her Papa says that she can come in France and that, if she goes back in China alone, that would not be good at all, because when married, the husband and his wife must stay together (I agree on it anyway )
Plus, why does her mother would want me to "sell" her daughter, once we'd be in Paris?
I am thinking about all that, but maybe does Liyan talk often to her parents, even if they live 2 hours from her.
Well...

I can also send pictures about me, at work, at home, with my family (parents, daughter) and from my home and 2d house )
Well...
Nothing new right now, except that I know today Liyan must see the doctor again.

[mustfocus]

Sylvain,

Get to know the brother and sister.  If the father likes you, the brother and sister like you, then the mother will eventually come around.  I am sure that Liyan will be talking to her parents every day.  Calling Guangzhou from Zhongshan should not be that expensive.

The pictures will help.  I wouldn't necessarily mention the 2nd house, but along the lines of you providing her with a beautiful home might go a long way.  Especially with your daughter.

But if you can bring your daughter to China, even for two weeks and have lots of pictures, that may help as well.

(anyone have any advice on the last part?)