WARNING

[Chet Sams]

Side step mike posting and welllllcome to the david and chong show. Now both of you step in your rightful corners and come out slamming each other.

There is no real need to once again post this mark of events on here. Take it off the forum and useless postings ok.

Sorry for mike to see all this. But i think he is old enough to make whatever decision is needed in his life. He posted here which i am sure to get some opinions of what has happen to help, either cope with the siutuation, or find a solution. Im sure he didnt need to see bickering between grown men to satisfy his situation.

Now my opinion for Mike. Remember this is a OPINION. I dont want people needing to remark to my post in detail and critic it. The 14 months does pose a problem to me. There are so many factors that play with all that. I would take things slow from here on out. Since you are not really sure what the truth and what is lies at this point and time. Sit back and sort things out accordingly. And see if things improve. If they dont then bail. But dont cloud ya judgement once ya do what ya need to do.

[dude]

Mike, I do not know you bro! I wish you the best, no-matter-what! The feuding in his thread is a complete HI-JACK! I will read this from start to finish real soon! I hope all turns out the way you wish!

[Chong]

Scott ... First of all, this is rather a very complicated relationship situation. It's not a matter of leading by example by my postings. I'm just like any other Forum member expressing my views. I hope I led by example by the work that I and the other MODS have done for by developing FaceBook and this Forum ... before I gave up my MOD status.

You make good points about # 237. I "think" that Jessica's honest with herself first and foremost. We would be also. We have to look out for ourselves. I "think" that Jessica paid her agency fees and didn't want to give up on ChnLove totally; thus, the agency was on the outside looking in. What is she going to do ... Change agencies She had secrets that they didn't need to know; unfortuately, it became involved into the EMFs. I don't trust agencies at all, they're after money first and foremost. I've stated that before on different threads. Mike's a good honest guy, that's why I "think" Jessica continued with the letters hoping that this guy's different. Afterall, she had nothing to lose. The fact that she came back to China to visit him, the fact that he was introduced to her family, the fact that he was invited to their church tells me that she has some belief in him.

It's not whether I believe in only my theory and not others. How am I different from other guys disagreeing on other postings Like you wrote, everybody has a right to disagree. My tone changed once it started getting personal. My apologies only go to Mike for hijacking his thread but the subject still involved his situation.

The only point I'm trying to make is that whatever happened in the 14 months of EMFs is irrevelant at this point. Yes, it may creat a bit of distrust for Mike & he spent a lot of money ... but everything's has to move FORWARD ... wouldn't you agree Jessica's opening up more and more to Mike. I can agree on one thing that has been mentioned many times ... you really don't know a person till you meet !!!   David5o & others has mentioned this many times.  So Mike & Jessica finally met after 14 months of suspect EMFs. Let them start from scratch and build a possible relationship. With ChnLove, we can't avoid translator's enchanced EMFs & partial dishonesty, it's part of the process. We all know this fact.

[Willy The Londoner]

I think that I will slip back into the shadows for the rest of the week and await my fate.  I am in that 'not sure what is happening' stage.  Maybe Mike is feeling the same as me but for a different reason .    But are we helping him or others by tearing ourself apart from within.

Willy

[Vince G]

You guys are starting to remind me of the three stooges. Pick two finger, O wise guy? What are you laughing at porcupine? If you guys are finished flexing your Hormones....

Mike had questions before he went that he got partial or no answer to. This is why they are going over things. She wasn't lying to him she wasn't sure about many things so she either didn't say or couldn't. It was his chance to go and get things straight and find if it is a relationship going forward or not. From here it's up to him in what he feels and thinks.

[shaun]

Shaun, ....


Are you serious?, ...The time effort thing doesn't wash?? Sorry Shaun, it bloody does wash.... were talking 14 months here, not 3 or 6 or 8months,  ...but 14 MONTHS and all the money that went with that time and effort too. All a waste of time!!

There's a little thing called honesty Shaun, and that's been sorely lacking here on her part. If she was in Japan and tired of the whole thing, then she should of hidden her profile or have been honest with Mike about the way she feels.... Just look at the bloody big mess, that has been caused by saying nothing at all!!!!

As for the conspricy thing, ....that's unfortunately what happens Shaun, when one or both of you aren't honest with each other!!

Your right about the Christian thing, i don't see things the same way as Mike, i just see the reality of the thing in front of me.... But i do trust his ability to use that insight, it is after all a part of his make-up as a man...

David.....

David,

Thanks for replying but consider a couple of things here.  She does not have a computer and does not have control like we do in having your profile out there or not.  Secondly, the agency initiated the conversation with Mike not Jessica and continued. Consider that both Mike and Jessica was being deceived by the agency.  It happens and I am reasonably sure this is the case here.  It is too easy to jump to conclusions not experiencing what happens on the other side of the agency.

When you go back and re-read all of the posts Mike is consistent in all he conveys and the same is true with Mike's report of what Jessica says.  Re-read Mike's posts from 9/5, he goes into a greater depth of the issues from her side.

[maxx]

It's alright Willy we are just agreaing to disagree.Nobodies called anybody dirty names yet.So it should be ok.We all hope and wish for the best for Mike.

Yes Willy you have me wondering what thoose four words are.We are all hear waiting with you for the out come of your own problems.Good luck and best wishes.I hope this works out in your favor.

[maxx]

Scott I think you need to go back and read some of my other posts.I don't always defend the women without good reason.I do have a pretty good idea how most of theese will play out by the members post.And from the time I have spent on theese forums.And from the time I have spent in China.

I don't just think of this stuff all on my own.It comes with alot of experience.In that part of the world.When you were reading your books.I was probably in some part of Asia.Squatting in the village mudd eating rice out of a bowl with a pair of handmade chopsticks.

You know I have ben all the way threw this. My wife lives with me in the states.We have ben married for over 3 years.Have a son.And another kid on the way.So it is probably a real good bet I have a good idea of what I'm talking about.

You asked me the other day if English is my first laungage it is.I grew up with so many different kinds of people.That you do learn to think outside of the box.It is a world where.Not everything is black and white Right or wrong. I speak a little Chinese, Japaneese,Thai,Spanish,Gutter Spanish,Lakota, and Navajo.I'm not fluent in any of theese laungauges but I can get by.

Scott go back and read your own posts.When you went to China.I'm willing to bet.That by reading your own posts.That you can figure out where it went wrong.They say hind site is 20/20.I'm willing to bet that you can pick out your mistakes.

I know what your thinking Scott.Your thinking that you didn't have any mistakes.That it was all her mistakes.Well I'm sure she did have some mistakes.You know this is her first time with a foriegnor.So she did have some mistakes.But I think you had  double or triple her mistakes.And you couldn't get past yourself now or then to see your mistakes.So you are probably doomed to make.The same mistakes over and over.

[Bob]

I may be wrong, however I get the impression that perhaps Jessica was a bit confused in the sense that she got burned before from a westerner and perhaps lost some faith in finding an honest western man, she probably said to herself, I will keep the EMF's going and see whats happens, will this guy named Mike actually come to China to see me one day? or his he like some of the others and just saying he will and then not show up?  This could explain why Jessica kept the EMF"s going for so long.

I also get the impression that Jessica really wants this relationship to work out with Mike, she could have remained in Japan and leave Mike standing alone at the airport in China alone, but that is not what she did. She has been hurt from a westerner the last time, making all kinds of promises to her, and then leaving her with no real intentions of  seeing her again, this must have been devastating to her, especially if she had intimate relations with this past Western male. (I wouldn't mind kicking that bastard in the ass, assholes like that make the rest of us good guys look bad) Excuse the bad words, I usually do not talk in such a way, but it just burns me to see that happen to what seems to be a good lady.

I being married to a Chinese woman (and I think the other brothers that are married to a Chinese woman here would agree with me on this particular point) is, that this terrible experience with the past western male would not only be devastating to her but also very EMBARRASSING. It makes perfect sense that she would use extreme caution in this relationship with Mike now, and YES, that also mean some "half truths".

 I think Mike has the right approach and he has a head on his shoulders, he has shared some personal things with us regarding his relationship with Jessica. We all have our opinions, some of you have made some very good points, but perhaps we should all focus more on supporting Mike and Jessica and stop some of this bickering.

Mike, you are there in China with your girl face to face and have spent some time together, getting to know each other better, only you know and feel what  your heart and mind is telling you, I wish you the best and no matter what the outcome is you have the support of all the brothers here.

[JimB]

Mike,  first let me say this.  I hope everything works out for you the way you want it to.  When it does it is the best you can hope for.
Secondly, I do not want to hi jack this thread but i have seen my name mentioned here and would like to clarify some things, you can see it in my thread.

[stuart barlow]

It appears to me,even the best laid out plans there's going to be twist and turns,
on nearly every post,there another problem we have to overcome,hopefully and
eventually with all the brothers input good and bad it will pave a smoother path for
the guys hoping to make a fresh start in life with a chinese wife,we shouldn't take
anything for granted as there are so many variables in any relationships,we can
only hope our knowledge of other people's successes and pitfalls can make it a
little bit easier,but even then it's still going to be difficult,so i just like to wish everybody
who's on the love train the very best of luck in your endeavors.

[David E]

[/quote]

No DavidE, JimB's situation is a carbon copy of Mike's. His EMFs were all dishonest based on agency & translator's disceptions & fake letters. But Jim met Gina/Angel and fell in love and married.

Chong

I read again all of JimB's posts about his journey......his only problem he posted about was the daughter, which he is dealing with.  He and Gina were married shortly after his arrival in China...they did NOT have to re-build their relationship from scratch. I say again, this is not the same situation as Mike and his Lady.
I dont want to nit-pick here, but I dont enjoy being contradicted when I only talk about the facts as they were posted.
DavidE

[Scottish_Rob]

Chong the dishonesty in the emf's were just THAT... DISHONEST, she DID not write them!!!!

What do you want the members here to do...SAY NOTHING when we get the NEWS we got, we all want to 'back up' our fellow brother and show him some support, and some possible reasons for why she done it?  ..I for one 'jumped in BECAUSE me and MIke and spoken about this, because I am going to the same place he is, and he wanted to make me aware......Lets be TOTALLY HONEST HERE Chong, ..WHAT WERE  YOUR FIRST THOUGHTS WHEN YOU READ ABOUT MIKES PROBLEM???

Did you just sit there and think, everyone is wrong...

Like yourself, I write PMs to Mike. The post that changes everything is post # 237. Did you even read it ? Those are the 'possible reasons' why Jessica did what she did. After learning from reading Sylvain's trip thread, I'm withholding any public thoughts till the end of his trip ... well, except for now ... LOL.

Just like JimB ... same situation ... you just have to make lemonade out of lemons. He made it work. Mike can do the same.

Did I say that everyone was "wrong"  Show me that quote.

Hi Chong

You wanted me to point out where you say everyone is wrong, well here it is

"...All those theory postings from other brothers ...too many people jump to conclusions..."

That is enough from 'My' point of view to think this is what you meant.  If you want to reply to this Chong then please do so by PM, I think the thread has been hijacked enough...

But enough has been said and everything has got a bit heated, so can WE ALL please get back to what Mike wants, and that is 'Getting on with his future with Jessica'...
Rob

[victor-hills]

At the end of the day its what mike wants not what we think back of guys give him some room to move.

[shaun]

Chong,

I'm not quite sure what message your putting across here? If you are talking solely about Mike then fine, he has made that choice to forgive... If on the other hand your talking about those of us that brought up the question of dishonesty and deceit .....what are you saying, ...we were all wrong?? If that is the case your doing the brothers here an injustice, because no-matter how well others here have dressed this up, Jessica was NOT honest, in her dealings with Mike, not by any one's stretch of the imagination. Mike went to China, on the basis of Lie's and half truths, there wasn't any honesty until he was in China. That's not what he (or anyone else) was expecting on his visit to China.

This protection thing is just dressage, The ladies are in there own country, they can (and do) pull out of a relationship at anytime, before, during, and after any visit by a man to meet them. I'm quite sure that some have been hurt before in there dealings with some western men, but hey, so have the men, how are they to protect themselves from unscrupulous women and agencies?? ...With far more difficulties than the ladies is the correct answer!!

It's just a fact of life, we all get emotionly hurt, it's the price we all pay for finding that right person to be in our life. Everything starts with honesty, and ends in trust, If there's no honesty during communications then there is precious little trust.... I've covered this area in another post so i wont go over it again here...

Again i will reiterate, ...this deception went on for 14 Months..... Let it be said now, ...that Mike is a very brave man indeed, for his forgiving. There are very few men here on this Forum that would still be trying to make this relationship work for him, and that includes you and myself, Chong!!  He is taking a huge leap of faith, and because of other factors relating to his Christian faith, i know him as an honest man, i can and will, wish him only the very best of luck and success on his endeavors for his relationship to succeed out of the ashes he found himself in through no fault of his own...

David.....

David,

One of the problems here is there is no evidence that she did wrong.  You are willing to take a leap of faith and accuse her of wrong doing without any of the facts necessary to make that judgement.  We all need to be careful when we pass judgement on a situation that we do not in fact pass judgement on an innocent person.  I think what is happening here is that many fear this kind of thing in their own life while wooing a woman over in China.

I think Mike is teaching us all a valuable lesson for the future.  Mike didn't turn and run when he encountered the problems, he began carefully looking into the situation, he counseled with a few of his brothers here, and he dug in and found out something completely different.  He found a woman that loves him and is afraid and distrustful of the agency she has employed.  If I understand correctly one of the reasons she moved to Japan was because she was hiding from the agency. (Mike correct me if I am wrong on that.)

This next thing is to all of the brothers.  When I came on board this site many were after Sly and his situation.  I don't know anything about it and don't care to open up the issues but to a newbie who just joined the site it scared the hell out of me.  I was in that read everything mode and thought man these guys can really go after each other.  Well I see the same thing here.  We are suppose to be the brotherhood, this isn't a tough love site, this is a support and information site.

There has been waaaaaay too much talking and giving of opinion rather than listening here.  I know each one of you care but please do not speak out of hurt and fear.  All of us here have been hurt, many by a wife who wanted out of a long marriage. We date a couple of Chinese girls via internet and get hurt again, maybe even go to China and get hurt and extremely disappointed.  I think everyone here has good intentions but when talking with a brother who is going through difficulties we need to check our hurts in a the keyboard before entering this website.

If we really want to help a brother we at first need to ask questions before we offer any opinion and help.Also, look at Maxx's post #250.  He is dead on brothers. Amen!!!!!! Maxx :icon_biggrin: