WARNING

[Brian Mc]

Greetings Mike,
Well first off congrats to you and your lady, really nice picture.  I hope that its the start of a wonderful relationship.  Also remember follow the advice and the 24 hr rule.

When in doubt ask the guys they can help, if you cant reach the guys remember be cool and try to stay calm regardless of what is happening.  Easy to say hard to do I know but we are all pulling for you.

Good luck brother

Brian

[Scottish_Rob]

Good luck Mike and I hope you get everything you want and want everything you get.

Jim

LOL  Jim , hope he can handle it all ... of what's coming his way ?

Oh yeah I think he will....:blush::angel::icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:

[Irishman]

Mike, it seems to be par for the course that the emfs are "dressed up" somewhat. You seem to be getting on well with the real her now anyhow which is great, so happy to hear things are going well.

[Arnold]

Mike , dont' go to the Agency and blow this up more then need be . You and Jessica are getting along well so far , don't jeapardize what you have now Face to Face . Remember some of the things ( important ones to you ) yes ... but don't go and make them into something bigger and embarrass Jessica in front of the Agency employee's .
Remember , face to face it's the 2.4 hour Rule .

About jessica's Wet-suit , it was the Sun thing ... right ? As Water reflex's the Sunlight , it is worse near Water to get burned . I'm white and I been through this too many times . Having Fun , only to regred it later .

Keep enjoying yourself ..... Enjoy ?

[David5o]

Mike,

This just goes to show, how important it is to form other methods of communcation between you. Apart from anything else, it will drastically cut down on the translators falsifying, EMF/email replies to the guys.

Seems you have a lot of catching up to do mike, as well as sorting this out between you. But it does seem as your going through things in methodical manner to get where you want to be.

That wedding your going too, i bet that guy will be pleased to see another white face there...hahaha!!
What's the betting he'll keep coming over to talk to you throughout the day??  haha!!

Seems your both getting on well together, which is good news .... you never know, ...you could just be going back to the States an engaged man!! ...hahaha!!

David....

[Scottish_Rob]

Happy to hear things mate:icon_cheesygrin:  You know my feelings through PM...lol

[shaun]

Mike,

I have a suggestion for you.  Rather than confronting the agency because they were doing what you thought they might do.  It seems to me that your efforts would be better served to spend your time setting up a computer or some other form of communication with her that takes the agency out of the loop completely as far as future communication.  I do not think in your case that any point would be served to rub their noses in it so to speak though all of would like to do that.

Since you and Jessica are doing so well spend the time with her and tell her she is more important than any agency.  What ever issues there might be can be resolved in the future AND through communication that is not through EMF.  I am sure you would like to put a chink in the agency's armor but realistically you will not change them overnight and quite frankly at this point your investment should be in your future called Jessica.

As was once said in a Star Trek episode, "We are the collective, you will assimilate or die."  The agencies will need to change and as a collective group of men we have a better chance of seeing great changes rather from one individual in China for a short period of time.  Together we can change how they look and deal with us.

Forget them and invest in her while you are there.

Mike food for thought,

Shaun

[Rhonald]

blow things up ?? do not worry that is NOT my style, you are confusing me with another Mike perhaps?

the EMF stuff, I am NOT worried about, I knew it was a problem from early on, and was not a big surprise when I hit it.... I just hoped it was not going to hit ....  but it did ... now I will work past it ... and find a way to avoid it in the future.

What a witty remark - you had me barking in humor. Also I have to appologise to you. Your handling of the situation has made me aware that you are indeed a very level headed individual. You do the brotherhood proud - enjoy your trip.

[shaun]

God's Blessings, Mike

[Ed W]

she asked me if I wanted more children ,,,,,,,, ?

this was a clear indication, in letters I was very clear that I was not able to father anymore children, that it was NOT possible.... I had an operation, and no WAY could I get anyone pregnant....

I was floored .... and the more questions and answers we went through, the more I realized she was not the author of most of the letters to me....

there were many inconsistancies .... finally I said to her .... how do you not know this, and who has been writing the letters to me..... which she did not answer....

If you find that she did know and was told but for some reason didnt choose to accept it?, as my wife did, are you willing to take face from her over this? Is it that important to hold someone responsible?

[David E]

If you find that she did know and was told but for some reason didnt choose to accept it?, as my wife did, are you willing to take face from her over this? Is it that important to hold someone responsible?
[/quote]

Ed, I would like to ask you a serious question that rises in my mind as a result of your words here.

I have read much about, and think I understand the importance of "face" in the Chinese psyche. Yet we in the western world place equally as much importance on "trust", integrity", "honesty". Is this not a 2-way street.??...do we always have to be mindful about them losing face, whilst at the same time ignoring our own internal needs for those things that we find important....seems to me like there is no middle ground...saving her face is the only game in town ??

It is just possible (and I dont say it is..please note) that MPO's Lady told him a whopping big lie..and he needs to ensure she saves face when she gets found out !!!

Bit of a worry for me :huh:

DavidE

[David5o]

I keep seeing things about Face and the importance of Face on the various threads of this Forum.
Your taking this Face thing far too seriously, in fact some are taking it to the extreme. Face in China basically revolves around the men, the women have very little Face to keep up or sustain, compared to the men, what she does have, are relatively basic...

I once asked Lucy about ''her Face'' and asked her to tell me the things that would cause her to lose it in front of me or anyone else. On hearing the things she was telling me , it was more than obvious that they were exactly the same as any decent women would expect anywhere in the western world. So if you have half decent manners, if your personality is not a floored one  (anger management issues etc) and a generally all round good sort of person. You have no need to worry about causing loss of Face to your lady, or any other lady in China.... Men on the other hand are a completly different ball game!!
 
I personally have never given the Face thing more than a second thought within our 3 year relationship. I know for argument's sake when I've unwittingly upset her, but i can normally pull those times back with my sense of humour, and can make a joke about myself. But i think if you treat your lady with respect and honesty, with generally good manners, .... not forgetting a love that she can both see and feel, your not going to be worrying too much about any Face loss thing....

David....

[RobertBfrom aust]

Good for you Mike , I am happy to read that you and Jessica are also moving forward , we have to balance out the singles and pre / e on the other thread .:icon_biggrin:

[Scottish_Rob]

David you wrote;
I know for argument's sake when I've unwittingly upset her, but i can normally pull those times back with my sense of humour, and can make a joke about myself. But i think if you treat your lady with respect and honesty, with generally good manners, .... not forgetting a love that she can both see and feel, your not going to be worrying too much about any Face loss thing....

This is exactly the way I feel, RESPECT, HONESTY, GOOD MANNERS, TRUTHFULNESS and LOVE are the things I believe 'IS'...FACE:blush:

To have a sense of humour is also important, I think...:icon_cheesygrin::angel:

[Ed W]

Ed,
I am not looking to take face from her or anyone else .... but I was faced with a very direct question from Jessica "Can we have a baby together?"  and I had to answer her..... so I very gently and carefully gave her a honest and true answer .... not possible, and here is why it is not possible .... and she understood

I saw all of the other things as glitches in our past communication, to the point of thinking something is broken .... after enough time of discussion, it was not as bad as I first thought ... no one got upset, no one lost face ...

My wife asked, after two weeks of being married and doing all those married things, if she should be worried about getting pregnant. I was surprised since it was even in my chnlove.com profile that I wasnt capable of having children anymore and even in our EMF's that I had the vasectomy. I found a vasectomy page in chinese and my wife read it for half an hour and finally understood it. Another brother I know got a similar question about this and he too had told her in his EMF's that he was snipped too. I dont know why it is but they sometimes seem to not want to listen to some things unless you focus on it in a discussion. This is just one example since in another thread i pointed out my wife is quite hard headed and sometimes its not so easy to get her to accept some things or listen to what is said. I realize it's her personality of course but by the sound of it it's not all that unique to my wife only.

Just food for thought....

David, my refernce to face is about going somewhere with her in tow and creating a scene causing her to be publically humiliated for her husbands bad conduct. I've met too many people who find it acceptable to make a public scene over something that could be handled in a far more controlled manner. When I see someone write or hear them speak of an injustice and how they want to set things straight I get worried since my ex had no problem letting the world see her air the dirty laundry and I've had to deal with countless public humiliations and it sucks badly. I just get worried about this sometimes when I get the sense that it could be heading that way.