Inconsistencies in EMF messages

[brett]

Hi Johnboy,

Welcome fellow UK brother! I think you'll find that the ladies are a bit skeptical about their admirers until you can take things to the next level and prove you are serious about things. They have a lot of timewasters to contend with.

Unfortunately though I'm sure a lot of relationships are ended by bad translators. Bear in mind though that ladies without computers will probably have to dictate their response by phone (unless they can visit the agency every day).

A good way to start is telling her what you want out of life, and asking her what she wants. Make sure she wants to live in the UK if that is what you want. Also good icebreakers are asking about her hobbies (although most of them like the same things!). Tell her about your family as well.

Later ask her if her parents are OK with the relationship (more relevant if she is young and not previously married).

Getting natural photos is a good step. You want to try and get to the stage when she is comfortable about sending you her address (without you having to pay to access it), or she wants to talk to you on MSN/QQ/Skype. Seeing her on webcam and hearing her voice is important.

What sort of age range is your lady? The younger girls are more computer literate and often have digital cameras. But it sometimes depends on what kind of job they do.

Also make it clear that you would like to visit her.

Try to keep your letters fairly short as well. I know it costs money, but it's a drop in the ocean compared to going to China and bringing back a lady! This is expensive business, that's for sure.

As to the photos, my lady's photos weren't photoshopped much apart from some brightening to make her skin look lighter.

[RobertBfrom aust]

Hi John , whilst you originally had a problem , re the 4500 approx letters , Vince has answered this elsewhere . Unless your lady can access the emf you send easily once they are translated , you will find at that large number of words , that things can get lost in the translation and , if you drown out the pertinent facts by embellishments , more confusion will happen , you have the opportunity to also forward to her everyday photo's of you , along with asking that she likes them etc,just keep the information flowing in a gentle manner and at the end of each emf ask 4 - 6 actual questions and if not answered in the next couple of emf's ask again .
 When you get through to about 10 emf's max ask for a video - cam session that way you can ensure that she is real , regards Robert .
 ps . its nice to see our ex Australian Prime Minister honouring us with his presence , ha ha

[brett]

I forgot to add - another thing you should do is try to learn Chinese sentence structure and play around with the Google translation tool. You will then begin to learn that a lot of English words can be dropped from your sentences to make translation easier. I'm still a novice at this but I think words such as "but" can cause a lot of confusion, even for the translators. I am beginning to understand what a difficult language English is, with the numerous ways to say the same thing. Also there is a lot of vagueness built into the language, e.g. "probably", "might", "perhaps" - it's a wonder our ladies figure out our true intentions at all :dodgy:.

[Johnboy]

Hi Brett,

Thanks for the welcome and thanks very much for your views and advice, really very helpful - just what I was hoping for.

Yes, I get the distinct impression that my lady is probing to see if I'm really serious about things and although it's early dayd I believe she knows I am but wants to find out how much I am.

I'm sure you gathered that the gist of my posting was actually about translator interference, incompetence, perhaps even scamming and I need to sort that out quickly, so any advice in that area would be gratefully received.  As for a home computer, I don't yet now if she has one, in fact that's part of the problem, I don't know that much about her at all yet; that's partly why I write the long letters - to encourage her to communicate,  Communication is something she stresses a lot in her short letters, which is great for me, but she isn't doing a lot of it yet.  Anyway, even if she does have a computer at home I don't think we can communicate that way yet as she told me in her last letter that she can not speak or write English; and I can not do either in Chinese - but I'm dtermined to learn!

I told her about my family in my very first letter, lots of things that you would have thought she would reply to in one way or another, particularly if she is a sensitive or caring person, but not a word came back on that, which is why I suspect she didn't get my letter or the full meaning of it and why I think I was 'translatorised'.  But good one, I haven't told her what I want out of life or asked what she wants out of life so I'll do that (Wow! that will be a long letter, I'll just have to do charactersandnospaces).  I've asked about hobbies but had a bland reply, still I'm working on that.  Yes, I think I will leave the parent consent thing 'til later as I don't want her thinking I'm pushing things and I'll just let that take it's own course.  Mind you, I'm normally ok with parents, in fact they seem to take to me more than the girlfriends.........hmmmm

I was really thrilled when she sent me her natural 'photos firstly because she has incredible natural beauty and secondly because I was becoming concerned about Chnlove photoshopping her out of existence and sexing her up; I do not like that sort of thing.  But yes, that to me was a defining moment - I asked very gently and she sent them within hours.  None of the quibbling or excuses that I've read about some ladies in posts here.  That's the way I'm trying to take it Brett, very gently, no demands or heavy stuff.  In fact I somehow get the impression that she may previously have been in a bad relationship.  I don't know, but she wrote in her profile that she hoped her partner "don't like drinking" and that would seem to identify that she's had a problem with that sort of thing.  Again, I don't know but you don't write something like that for no reason.  Anyway, whatever, I'm taking it very gently because that's the way I am.

Same with MSN/QQ/Skype, I'll let that come naturally and not let her feel she's being pushed down that route.

She is 26 years old Brett, and seems very mature, and tells me that she works as an assistant to the general manager of an insurance company.  I gently asked her if she could tell me something about her work, to get the communication going and she wrote a little bit about it.  I presume with a job like that that she would have to be computer literate, but probably not in English.

I think I will have to build the relationship a bit more before I tell her that I would like to visit her, again, because I don't want her to feel I'm pushing things after 5 EMF's each!  Actually, she has given me a ray of hope on this one as she asked in her last letter if I could teach her English songs "when we met up", and said she would like to cook spicy food for me (yes please!) and I could cook Western food for her - I love cooking!  So, yep, there are some promising signs building up slowly.

Try to keep my letters short?  Brett, does the sun come up at night?  That's a really tough one.

Another piece of advice I would like is how often I should write to her?  I've been writing about once a week mainly because of work pressures but also because I don't get the impression that she wants me to write more often.

Then there's her profile refresh 2 days after she sent me a long affectionate letter ending with "I cherish this chance" ie she and I building a relationship.  But maybe that too was the translator? In any event, I saw her profile refresh as meaning that she wasn't that sure about me being the right one and ( I hope this doesn't sound awful) she was putting herself 'back on the market'.  What would be your opinion/thoughts about that?

Whoops! I've got to dash.  Big thanks Brett

Johnboy

[brett]

John,

I think I would be wary of a lady who doesn't put in that much effort. I exchanged a couple of EMFs with a few ladies. I ditched the ones that got too sexual, the ones who took too long to answer, and the ones who didn't really send good replies to what I'd been asking about. My eventual choice of lady was streets ahead of everybody else - she took time to answer my messages personally even though she works incredibly long hours.

I wrote to my lady every weekday (the translator didn't work weekends). Fortunately one of my careers has been as a writer, so I can knock out letters in no time at all. But after about 10 letters we ditched them except for important stuff and just talked on MSN and Skype. This has gone very well provided I obey my important rule of not talking about important stuff on MSN!

I would be concerned about the profile refresh though, although maybe it's just the agency having a spring clean. I think they do put different photos up according to the seasons.

You have quite a big age gap there so that may be an issue. Also because she's so young she might be holding out as long as she can. Or maybe she's one of those women who are looking for Mr 100% - my sister knows loads of women like that, and they're still single and in their 40's.

At the end of the day you really need to fall in love with somebody's personality. Some Chinese women (or maybe women from any country?) can be very cold and not have much in the way of personality. I've had some incredibly fun chats with my lady on MSN though. This is important as looks won't last forever, but personality will.

As for hobbies - well China is still developing and some of these ladies work extremely long hours. But you can be pretty certain that travelling, singing, dancing, exercising or cooking will be on their list!

[Johnboy]

Hi Mike

Thanks for the welcome.  And thanks for all your wise and reassuring words.  I certainly needed that as I mistakenly thought that the ladies were fully aware of  the provocative nature of their 'photos and perhaps played a willing role in them.  I certainly did not know that they did not even see them on Chnlove's site; don't they have the prerogative of vet and veto?  Are their 'photos not displayed in their own agencies?  My lady must surely have seen some of her 'alluring' and 'suggestive' poses because she attached them to me with her 'photos - or was that the **** translator again?  That was one of the things that had my mind racing!  Thank God that those who have seen it all and done it all are here to caution and guide those who have not.  Thank you Mike.  Mind you, fortunately, I had also read the 24 hour rule, and that held me back from putting my foot in when I was about too.

I must confess that I'm still not completely sure about the profile resfresh or its implications.  Before I finally managed to write my first letter ( and was checking to see if she was still there at every opportunity, I noted that her profile was refreshed at least once every month.  And I find that very hard to understand as she really is a very beautiful lady with a stunning figure.  However, that was not the only thing that captivated me (I'm not looking for 'arm-candy', I'm seeking my soul mate); she also had this exquisite sincerity about her that I really can not explain.  Anyway, I shall try to find answers to the profile refreshing vexation with some very gentle, perhaps even disingenuous, probing in my next letter.  But for me, with no disrespect for your wise and kind words, it's still a hurdle to overcome.  but I shall be very gentle in jumping over it.

I am really very taken with your advice about focusing on the 'meat' of the letters and concentrating on the thigs I know (as much as I'm able to know) that came from her to build our relationship; and I wii definitely be ignoring the fluff.  I had not even thought about that so BIG thanks - and I shall take your advice on this to heart.

Yes, I entirely agree with you, 5 letters is just a start, and I have always viewed it from that perspective.  I like things to be founded on mutual trust, respect and sincerity.

Many, many thanks Mike, it's a pleasure to know you.  And I wish you happiness on your journey and adventure too.

John

[David E]

John

Most of us here who began this "Journey" at some point in time got heavily confused by all the mixed messages coming from the Women...the translator fluff, the refresh syndrome, the long vs short replies to our LONG letters, photoshopping or not......etc, etc, etc.......I am sure you know the drill by now !!

So easy under these variables to get into "analysis paralysis" ...which usually is a one way track to utter confusion:icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:

There is very little real choice...you go along for the ride and slowly devlop a true knowlege and understanding of the woman to whom you write. Over time, you can get past the EMF stage and onto direct communication via web-cam..often resisted at first....remember, these women are bombarded with time wasters and "players"...they have just as much trouble as we do in deciding who is serious and who just wants a cheap thrill . !!!.

I am personally sure that the first few (5 to 10 ??) EMF replies are polite acknowlegements of your correspondence...only after a while will she get the message that you are serious and begin to interact...even so, this will be fraught with inconsistencies from the translator, and if you are writing 4000 words + you may not get the detailed responses to ALL your questions because translators work very hard, with serious deadlines and production targets.

I would only suggest to you, keep your letters a bit shorter, stick with your plan, learn what you can about her...but dont take it all at face value ...yet.

Get on to Web-cam as soon as she is comfortable with that and then you will see a whole new scenario.....and of course, if you let her know you are prepared and willing to come to meet her...well that is real good credibility.

Welcome to the brotherhood...you may not agree or like all you read here...but all of us have varying degrees of real time experience and our motives are always to help each other in any way we can.

And I see that you have already learned the best lesson of all...The Maxx 24 hour rule....Golden !!!!

Cheers and good hunting:icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:

DavidE

[Scottish_Rob]

Johnboy...As you are probably aware (or not) that I am going to Qingdao in November. :icon_cheesygrin: My lady and I have been in contact since November of last year and this will be my first and only trip there.  Her profile gets refreshed once a month too.:@  However, any and all cupids or letters sent to her are not shown to her.:icon_biggrin:  Because she has (apparently) told our translator 'she' does not want to know, because she has found the one she wants to be with.:icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin::angel:

We started sending two or more letters a day in the beginning sometimes only one:huh:, but after you get 'speaking properly' two or three emf's a week is sufficient I think.:icon_biggrin:

[Johnboy]

Yes Rob, I was aware you were going to Qingdao but couldn't remember when it was because there was so much of interest to follow in your journey post.  I tuned in practically every night to catch the next instalment.  I hope everything goes brilliantly for you and that you come back the happiest man in the world - well, ok, the UK - but that is only until it's my turn!!!

Seriously, thanks for the tips, especially about the profile refresh and I think I am sensitive enough to sort that one out.  At the end of the day I have to respect that it is my lady's decision about what she does or does not do.  We shall see, but I now know that the advice I have been given here and Maxx's 24 hour rule will put me in with a racing chance.  Hey, you would know all about that wouldn't you hahaha.

Hmmm,,,I think I'll stick with one or two letters a week for now and see how that goes and if things progress, and I pray they will - well, I can cut it down to half-a-letter a week, that will save on the credits don't you think?

Thanks a lot Rob - talk to you again soon.

John

[David5o]

John,

Virtually all profile refreshes are instigated by the agency, with little and more likely no input from the the lady herself.

If this bothers you too much, i suggest that after you have reached an understanding between you both, then suggest that you both have your profiles hidden. If she agrees then at least you will have some idea to her sincerity towards your relationship.... Around the same time i would also start suggesting additional means of communications, such as IM and or IM/webcam.

David.....

[Johnboy]

Mike

I follow everything you say and obviously I am a complete novice compared to you, so I would not dream of disrespecting you by disagreeing with what you say.   In point of fact, I actually don't disagree with you anyway - I don't know if she knew about or sent the 'photos but what I do know, and I almost commented on it in a letter to her, was that she did not look happy dressed up in a little black dress and striking a pose; in fact she looked distinctly unhappy and uncomfortable.  It just was not her and she knew it.  Please don't misunderstand me, these are not girlie mag type photos, far, far from it, they are heavily photoshopped and vamped up.  There is nothing revealing and I would be proud to have her on my arm dressed as she is.  In that respect, I'm cool with the photos.  But, from the little that I know of her, and the sincerity I see in her eyes in other photos,  I can say without fear of contradiction that they are not her.

What I do strongly believe, is that she did send me the ordinary photos of herself 'outside' and she looked relaxed, happy and utterly beautiful - and I wrote and told her so (well, not the relaxed, happy bit, that wouldn't have been romantic you understand).  It is also unsurprising that the letter she sent those photos with was the longest, loveliest I have received from her.  I rest my case....

If I get one nano second of a chance Mike - I will make the trip, God willing it comes to that.

And Mike, I long for the day when I can paraphrase one sentence in your post that I am replying to:

"I do know that after I met Fei, it was clear that she would only talk to me, or see me, and NO OTHER MAN."

That will be one of the most special and proudest days of my life.

Thanks Mike, your thoughts have given me much consolation.

Have a good night and sleep well.

John

John,

Virtually all profile refreshes are instigated by the agency, with little and more likely no input from the the lady herself.

If this bothers you too much, i suggest that after you have reached an understanding between you both, then suggest that you both have your profiles hidden. If she agrees then at least you will have some idea to her sincerity towards your relationship.... Around the same time i would also start suggesting additional means of communications, such as IM and or IM/webcam.

David.....

Hi David

You are another one that I have come to know well from hours of clicking around and reading posts.  

Wow!  You people are all so amazing, you all have such incredible and valuable advice to give.  There are so many good points here David, thanks a lot for that.

Please don't be offended, but how do you know about the profile refreshes?  Are you absolutely sure?  I really hope that what you say is so because, although I know I'm making a big deal about it, I was so wounded when I saw Fei's refreshed profile, and only 2 days after she wrote me such lovely words, including that "she cherished this chance."  And, ok, some of it MAY have been the translator but I do believe she wrote the words I have quoted.

Yes, I'm going to move towards gently suggesting that she hides her profile, mine is already hidden, at a slightly later time.  In fact it would be wonderful if Fei took that decision herself.  I don't know about additional means of communication though as she has written that she does not speak or write English.  I'll tackle that one at a later date but there is no way I 'm going to put her in an embarrassing position.  Only she will know when she is ready for that and I'll be guided by her.  I just hope with all my heart that we get that far and that Chnlove and translators don't ruin our relationship.

Gotta go now.  Thanks David I really appreciate your help and advice

John

[maxx]

John what David is telling you about the agencies refreshing the ladies profile is true.I do know this to be true because I asked my wife about it.And asked my wifes best friend about it.They both told me that the Agencies will refresh the ladies profile till all the fees have ben payed or the lady tells the agency that she doesn't want to be with the agency any more.

Maxx

[Irishman]

John, 100% its the agency.
My lady and I use msn all the time and dont use emf's any-more as her English is pretty good.
Yet her profile refreshes regularly and i know for a fact its not her doing it.
Another lady I know doesn't use chnlove anymore as she is married (her agency doesn't know) but somehow her profile refreshes every now and again.
Sometimes you just have to take a leap of faith with your lady. The amount of guys here that are engaged and married to  women they met through chnlove is proof positive that there are plenty of genuine women on the system, but you do need to keep an open mind.

[David5o]

John,

IM and even better IM/webcam, can be used as an additional means of communication, still using the EMF's as your main correspondence means. The webcam tells you much more than anything you write, it's a means of bringing two souls closer together. You can still communicate via IM, but in a very limited form using for example, google translate or MSN using their own Tbot 2 translation tool. But it is limited if your Lady has no English and you have no Mandarin, but it can be a form of fun too!! .... Just don't use the translation tools for any serious matters, as these translation tools can get things notoriously wrong. So leave those matters to your main form of correspondence.

As for knowing about things that go on at the agencies, my better half still has good connections to two of the chnlove agencies, both of them to date, are not mentioned in Chongs bad agency list.....YET!!  hahaha!!  
Also I think by now, it's common knowledge here at the Forum that the renewal of Lady Profiles are agency generated......
David....

[brett]

David5o quotes the 2nd golden rule - never use MSN/QQ etc. for important stuff!

As for communicating, you can easily write your lady chinese using Google translate. The trick is to translate your Chinese back to English, if you get identical (or similar) text back to your original English then she will understand it. Over time you will learn how to write English that translates well.

I'm not sure if it works the other way round. My lady sends me the wierdest stuff sometimes :huh:.

Also remember you can share photos on MSN, this always goes down well with the ladies. Especially if you send photos of you with your family!