Inconsistencies in EMF messages

[Proteus]

Hi Johnboy,

My heart can't stay still after reading all that you encountered. It's new members like you I care most because you are most often bewildered, frustratered and even scammed. Surely direct contact is the best way to sort out your doubts, but since you want it come naturally, here I repeat my advocation again. I have a cunning plan. As you said before, you are determined to learn Chinese to help in your communication with the lady, you can find a chance to mention in one EMF, then it will become natural for you to ask for the Chinese version of your letters to the lady as material in study. Your doubts can be diminished or proved by approval or reluctance. Could anyone who are in similar situations do me a favour to have a try?

[Johnboy]

Hi there Proteus

You are a genius my friend!  "Cunning plan" indeed, it's a master stroke! I will use it in my letter (as a footnote to the translator) to my lady, which I am sending this evening.  Thanks also for your thoughts on EMF character allowance; you are right it's not actually a lie not to inform people that spaces are included but when I raised this with Chnlove they did not seem to know the answer themselves!  On this one, I have had some very good advice from Brother Brett, who tells me that my letters are too long if I am using all my characters so, at this stage of my relationship, I am actually going to reduce them.  But it would be nice to have the 8000/10000 characters available, that you posited, a little later on.  I am also using simpler language and putting in the odd Chinese word/phrase (Ni rang wo kai xia, ni zheng piao liang); another of Brett's suggestions - THANK YOU BRETT!

I think you may have gone offline Proteus but if you can get back to me shortly I would be grateful if you could let me have the Chinese words for "I am not being conceited/big-headed/boastful/vain" that sort of thing, actually just "not being conceited" etc or some other abbrieviation or Chinese term that covers it would be better.   My reason is, that when I'm writing to Fei (my lady) I constantly find myself thinking that what I am saying is C/BH/B/V (see above) and I want to occasionally drop something in to lighten the tone, like haha, so that I am not misunderstood.  Fei lives in Chongqin, Chongqing so would she speak Mandarin, Cantonese?  

*Hey, if any of the other Brothers picks this up, perhaps you could help me if Proteus hasn't been able to get back?*

Also proteus, if you have been reading the posts, you will see that I am in a dillemna over Fei's profile having been refreshed.  This dillemna was heightened by the fact that it was refreshed only 2 days afer she wrote me a very nice letter ending with "I cherish this chance".   I will writing to Fei tonight and I feel that I have to mention this in some way because, to use your well-chosen words, I do feel  "bewildered" and "frustrated".  I was going to send my letter last night but decided to observe the Brotherhood's 24 hour golden rule - and I am so glad that I have, it really works!!  I am getting some fantastic advice from fellow Brothers, whom I have yet to reply to, but I wondered what your inestimable advice would be as someone who is involved at the 'sharp end' and has intimate knowledge and experience of the cultural differences between Fei and I?  Should I deal with it gently (I will do that whatever I do!) gently and humourosly? Not mention it at all? In some other way that you can advise me on formed fromyour personal experience?

I know that I am doing this for selfish reasons - in which case I really should not mention Fei's profile refresh at all  -  but my heart is ruling my head, even though I have a very trusting nature.  But you see Proteus, this Western man is completely captivated, enraptured and fascinated by this Oriental lady, even though I have never met her!  And I know you will understand, and help me to understand.

Thank you from my heart Proteus.

John

[Scottish_Rob]

If I say something to Ke Ren, I just say the words 'boastful or Big headed', with a little explanation as too what they mean...:icon_cheesygrin:

[Johnboy]

Thanks David 5o

I think your suggestion of using IM/webcam as additional communication means, whilst keeping EMF for main correspondence is a great idea.  Obviously, at the moment, the no-Mandarin no-Chinese barrier presents a difficult problem but I think that once Fei has trust and confidence in me we could start to move towards using IM/webcam - can not wait!

Incidentally, does your better half have any contacts/connections with Chongqin Yanghongnian Marriage Introductory Company Ltd?  If so, I would be very interested to hear..........

John

[David5o]

John,

China as a whole has Mandarin as the official language of China. In some areas they will use the area language in day to day conversation, but all know and speak Mandarin. It's been the Official language taught at ALL schools, collages, university's since the very early 1950's.

Don't read too much into the profile refreshing, it's a non-event so to speak. You can mention it, but i wouldn't make too much of a deal about it....

I think you'll find that Proteus's idea about obtaining the translated version of your letters or pre-translated copies of your ladies letters has been put forward here a few times. Iv'e not heard if it's ever been successful as such, i think some have had one or two translated copies sent back to them, but i don't think it's ever been on a regular basis....  Perhaps if anyone is receiving regular translated copies of there letters or pre-translated copies of there ladies letters, you can let John know, and how you went about it???  Certainly no harm in trying yourself John!!

David....

[Johnboy]

John,

Virtually all profile refreshes are instigated by the agency, with little and more likely no input from the the lady herself.

If this bothers you too much, i suggest that after you have reached an understanding between you both, then suggest that you both have your profiles hidden. If she agrees then at least you will have some idea to her sincerity towards your relationship.... Around the same time i would also start suggesting additional means of communications, such as IM and or IM/webcam.

David.....

All good stuff David.  As you gathered, the profile refresh was the big issue with me and I admit I got hot under the collar about it. But thanks to all the great advice I've received here I decided to stay cool and mention the profile refresh but in a humorous way So I informed my lady that I had received my latest weekly matches from Chnlove because I had forgotten to stop Chnlove sending them when I hid my profile (which is true) and that one of my matches was her.  Wrote a couple of lines saying how much I liked her; and ended by saying: "I also thought Chnlove made a very good choice in choosing you as one of 'my matches'.  I could not have made a better choice myself! ha ha (big smile!!)"  Saved! By the wisdom and experience of all those who were caring enough to give me such good advice here - AND Maxx's Golden Rule!  Thank you everbody (BIG smile).

John

John what David is telling you about the agencies refreshing the ladies profile is true.I do know this to be true because I asked my wife about it.And asked my wifes best friend about it.They both told me that the Agencies will refresh the ladies profile till all the fees have ben payed or the lady tells the agency that she doesn't want to be with the agency any more.

Maxx

Thanks Maxx,

I had your words in mind, and those of many others here who have been so kind and thoughtful, when I sent my letter to Fei today.  I have added a few lines that I wrote to Fei about her profile refresh as a reply in David5o's post on the issue.

Big thanks

John

John, 100% its the agency.
My lady and I use msn all the time and dont use emf's any-more as her English is pretty good.
Yet her profile refreshes regularly and i know for a fact its not her doing it.
Another lady I know doesn't use chnlove anymore as she is married (her agency doesn't know) but somehow her profile refreshes every now and again.
Sometimes you just have to take a leap of faith with your lady. The amount of guys here that are engaged and married to  women they met through chnlove is proof positive that there are plenty of genuine women on the system, but you do need to keep an open mind.

Thank you Irishman,

I took your advice and kept an open mind and took that leap of faith.

And boy did it feel good!

Top of the morning to you Irishman.

John

[Proteus]

But John, from you tone I can feel you are certainly not a conceited/big-headed/boastful/vain person. If you want something to decorate and smooth your letter, some sweet songs or poems will do.

Please do ignore the refreshed of profile as David suggested, 99% possibly Fei has no idea of it.

Chongqing is in mid-west of China and the dialect is similar to that in Sichuan. But like David said Mandarian is official language in public places. Chongqing girls are generally known as straight-forward, generous, hot-tempered. But in her four pictures, Fei looks serene with a little melancholy?  

About Yanghongniang, it's her website http://www.cnyhn.com/. Take care! My security software warned me of Trojan when browsing it.

[Johnboy]

Ah, Proteus you are back.  Thank you for your kind words.  I see you have also done some research - excellent!  Yes, you are correct in your description of Fei's pictures; I also think she looks serene but a little melancohlic - and also utterly beautiful.  She has changed her pictures a few times with 'refreshes' and that look of melancholy is usually there.

I don't know about then rest of your description about Chongqing girls but she is certainly straight-forward and stresses it in most of her letters.  I like that.

However, I think you are wrong about the 99% possibility that Fei has (had) no idea of her profile refresh, as I mentioned it in my letter today.  I decided after all the thoughtful and experienced advice I received here (including from you) that I would approach my dillemna about this in a humorous way because, after all, what Fei chooses to do is her prerogative, and I respect that. I have already received Fei's reply and it was a very nice letter.  I hope you won't mind if I quote what I wrote about Fei's profile refresh, and her response to that:

"One last thing Fei, just after you wrote your last letter to me I received an email from Chnlove with my 'latest weekly matches', I had forgotten to stop Chnlove sending them when I hid my profile because I did not want to receive admirer letters or write to anyone but you.  Anyway, one of my 'latest matches' was you, and I saw that you had refreshed your profile two days after writing to me.  I respect and accept what you wish to do, but I simply want to say that I really like you very, very much and I really cherish this precious chance to get to know you and to try to build a relationship with you.

I also thought Chnlove made a very good choice in choosing you as one of my 'matches'.  I could not have chosen better myself! ha ha (big smile!!)."

Fei's reply to that:

"Thanks for you understand I did not hid (sic) my profile but I only chat with you.  I am very honest for you, wish you trust me.  I want to keep on touch each other and find more thing."

Would you PLEASE advise me about your interpretation of what Fei has written?  I know you too will be straigh-forward and tell me 'like it is'.  Is there any hope or comfort for me in Fei's words; or is she just being kind and telling me that she sees me as a friend or penpal?  

Also Proteus, do you know much about Fei's agency?  Is it good, trustworthy?

Thanks Proteus!
Hey Brothers, Vince G, Brett, David E, Irishman, Maxx, Mike mpo 474 et al; I would greatly appreciate your take on this!

[Proteus]

Hi John,

There's no definete answer when the question concerns a human's heart, especially a woman. I think her words are appropriate at this stage of your communication. You politely showed your notice of her refreshed profile without claiming her exclusive communication with you. She politely showed interest in keep that communication going without attaching bondage on her freedom in making future decisions. "find more thing" is what she wants to do.

To be straight-forward, as long as she is really herself communicating with you, there's no big problem. My worry lies elsewhere...

The feedback rating of Yanghongniang caught my attention, 77% is the lowest I've ever seen. I have no other knowledge to make objective judgement of it.

It's nearly mid-night here.Good night for now.

[David5o]

John.

Remember that all your letters to and from Fei are via the translator. It's the translators that actually refresh the Ladies profiles they are responsible for. So the translator is not going to tell you she was responsible for refreshing Fei's profile. So the truth is, ...that what you were told here by the Forum still remains as to what actually occurred. The translator has just dressed up Fei's reply to your statement, neither denying or confirming Fei had refreshed her profile herself!!!

So Proteus was 'Not' wrong in what he had stated about the 99% probability that Fei had no idea about any profile refreshment....  Having said that, i would just forget all about the profile refreshment, it really is a non-problem!!!

David.....

[Johnboy]

Thank you Proteus

And thank you for being so considerate in getting back to me so late at night at wherever you are.  I hope you won't mind if I leave a response to your reply, in case you look in tomorrow?

Wise words Proteus, who knows what a woman is thinking in her heart?!  The reason I specifically wanted your opinion on what Fei has written is because you will have deep insight in to the cultural aspect of a Chinese woman's ways of thinking; ie I may have a completely different understanding to you of what Fei's reply means - and on that I would bow to your judgement.  It is also a great help that you are (I believe) a translator, sorry if I have got that wrong, and I presume this would give you even more insight in to what Chinese women mean in their letters?  

The way I interpret what Fei is saying is that she is happy to " chat" with me but that she is looking for someone more suitable for her than me, in some way or another.  

Also, I don't quite understand what Fei means by: "I wan to keep on touch each other and find more thing"?  Does this mean "find more thing" between she and I or keep in touch with me whilst she looks for someone she feels is more suitable for her?  I am hoping the objective point of the phrase "and find more thing" is "and" because if she had written "but it may have had a different connotation ie but look elsewhere perhaps?  Sorry, my logic is failing me here,

The other thing that you don't know, because I haven't quoted it all, is that this last letter was a very nice one; also devoid of translator's fluff or dressing up, so I think we are beginning to write 'to each other', which is a big step forward because I suspected that a great deal of our previous correspondence was between a translator and I.  I had been cautioned by Brothers here that often the first 5 or 6 letters were mainly translator influenced and I now understand that they are right.  Spot on in fact, as Fei and I have exchanged 6 letters each. (hey, well done Brothers!) So, as I say, this last letter is at least a step forward.

Are you able to go any further on Fei's agency Feedback?  I'm not very up on Feedback Ratings, what does Fei's mean?  Hopefully not that there is potential thought for scammers/scamming?  Another point about the agency is that it specifically has 'Marriage Introduction' in its title.  So I presume that by being with that agency Fei is looking solely for marriage?

I agree with your thoughts that Fei's words are appropriate at this stage of our communication.  In fact, I'm very pleased about that, and Fei comes across as being very respectable and respectful, as well as straight-forward and honest - and I respect that greatly.  I would be rather worried if I was getting passionate letters fromFei saying Wo ai ni at this stage, as some of the Brothers have after 2 or 3 letters!

If you would be good enough to indulge me, two other quick points:

Firstly, I did not put a footnote to the translator in my letter asking for copies of Fei's letters in Chinese because I thought that the profile refresh issue was enough.  Too many issues becomes heavy (boring?).  I shall make the request a little later in a way that, hopefully will not embarrass Fei or cause her to, mistakenly, think I am 'prying' or implying dishonesty (probably the wrong word to use) on her part.

Secondly, I sent my letter to Fei at 4.4.30am this morning (I know, I'm a night owl and a workaholic!), and received her reply at 7.55am this morning - 3 and a half hours from London to Chongqin (to Fei and back to the agency), from Chongqin to London!   How do they do that?  In fact, all Fei's replies are usually in that time-span (except one, which took 2 days and this was one of the things that originally made me think I may be being 'scammed'.  I do NOT think that now.

Proteus, I offer you my deepest appreciation and thanks; and bid you a very good night.

John

John.

Remember that all your letters to and from Fei are via the translator. It's the translators that actually refresh the Ladies profiles they are responsible for. So the translator is not going to tell you she was responsible for refreshing Fei's profile. So the truth is, ...that what you were told here by the Forum still remains as to what actually occurred. The translator has just dressed up Fei's reply to your statement, neither denying or confirming Fei had refreshed her profile herself!!!

So Proteus was 'Not' wrong in what he had stated about the 99% probability that Fei had no idea about any profile refreshment....  Having said that, i would just forget all about the profile refreshment, it really is a non-problem!!!

David.....

Thanks David,

I'm beginning to get the hang of it now - yakes some time with me but I do evebtually get there!  My problem is that I have a very trusting nature (not being conceited - what is that Mandarin word?) so I tend to overlook or miss the machinations of the translators.  So, yup, the Brothers are right, and Proteus is right.  And you are absolutely right - the profile refreshment really is a non-problem.  Thank you for putting ME right (no pun intended!) about that.

Incidentally, I've just left a post for Proteus, in case he looks in tomorrow.  Could you have a look and give me your opinion on that; and particularly the turn-round times of my letter to and from China, bearing in mind the agency/client bits in-between?

Thanks David

John

[brett]

77% is quite low feedback for an agency. But perhaps someone has a personal agenda against them? Online dating is a multimillion dollar business, and it's obvious chnlove is fighting huge reputation wars against competitors.

Chongqing ladies will be lovely. My lady is from nearby Hubei province. They are a nice compromise between the shorter, dark skinned girls from the South and the tall pale skinned girls from the North. Chongqing would be a fantastic place to visit.

My lady's profile is still listed even at this stage of our relationship. Unless you go to see her and get engaged then the deal isn't done as far as the agency is concerned.

You should try and talk to her on MSN/QQ or Skype. My lady's agency is one of the best, but we now talk almost exclusively outside of EMFs which is fantastic.

[Johnboy]

77% is quite low feedback for an agency. But perhaps someone has a personal agenda against them? Online dating is a multimillion dollar business, and it's obvious chnlove is fighting huge reputation wars against competitors.

Chongqing ladies will be lovely. My lady is from nearby Hubei province. They are a nice compromise between the shorter, dark skinned girls from the South and the tall pale skinned girls from the North. Chongqing would be a fantastic place to visit.

My lady's profile is still listed even at this stage of our relationship. Unless you go to see her and get engaged then the deal isn't done as far as the agency is concerned.

You should try and talk to her on MSN/QQ or Skype. My lady's agency is one of the best, but we now talk almost exclusively outside of EMFs which is fantastic.

Hi there Brett,

Thanks for that explanation. I have been meaning to reply to some of your other very informative replies but unfortunately have not got round to doing so, so I'm sorry for that.  Yes, I understand that the loveliest girls in China come from Chongqin and that area; that was NOT why I chose Fei- I didn't know about it at the time.

I think I've finally come to terms with the profile refresh and I presume you have read my posts on it, which include what I wrote to Fei and how she replied.  I would appreciate your opinion of that, and also of the astonishingly swift EMF turn-around, which really baffles me!

How long have you been with your lady Brett?  I also read somewhere on Chnlove's site that the ladies say when they do or do not want their profiles refreshed. But I guess I've come to learn that's more of Chnlove's dishonest propaganda, such as being able to put your email and personal contact details in EMF's - oh sure, if you can get the EMF to your lady without the translator taking it out!

I tried your suggestion of putting Mandarin words/phrases in my last letter to Fei and she seems to like it as she replied in the same fashion.  So thanks very much for that  - and PLEASE keep the helpful suggestions coming.

Best thanks Brett

John

[brett]

Hi John,

I'm not sure really matters where the lady is from. Besides when you get to know her a bit more you might find her parents are from somewhere else entirely. Incidentally, asking if she's lived in her province all her life and where her family come from is a great question to ask!

I only met my lady in early August and I only signed up for chnlove at the end of July so things have moved very quickly indeed. I guess sometimes it works that way. We have been helped by the fact that we both work in IT so we have got our relationship outside of the EMFs working very well indeed, so have accelerated the relationship much better than many other people would be able to manage.

I guess my career in data analysis also helped me sift through the 1000's of potential ladies. In the end I liked the look of a specific lady, then she sent me an admirer letter a couple of days later, and we hit it off from the first EMF. Right from the start there was a real spark with this lady - she is a lot different to the other ladies, has a very strong personality and used natural photos in her profile.

My lady sent me her address in an EMF - I didn't have to pay for it. I guess it depends on how good the agency is. At the end of the day, their goal is to get you over there to meet the lady so it is in their interest to get you communicating.

EMF replies are quick sometime - being in the UK works in my favour as I can send one late at night and get a reply when I wake up. I rarely use EMFs now though.

[Brian Mc]

Greetings Brothers,

John, Let me step into this discussion and give you some words as well.

As everyone has already said the profile refresh is a translator/agency thing not your lady.  Personaly I wouldnt give it another thought.  Now having said that if the refreshes stop for a while then suddenly start up well that may be a different story but in your case it sounds like business as usual.

Now as for what Fei is saying in her response to you where she talks about "find more thing" and "chat" well here is my read on it.  I see it as she is more than happy to continue writing to you (chat) and developing the relationship and learning about each other (find more thing).  

What you have to keep in mind is that first your letter is translated at the agency into chinese. Errors and misconceptions can occur and the translator tries to make the letter make sense based on her view of what you are trying to say.  Now your lady reads this adjusted letter and adds her view of what she thinks is being said.  Now Fei writes her reply and the translator switches it to english and proof reads it to see if it makes sense and adjusts accordingly.  Now the reply gets to you and you put your spin on it and read based on what you wrote and what you think you think you expect as a reply.  Now also keep in mind that it appears from what Zhen and I experience with the electronic translator that english to chinese is much better translated than chinese to english.  So your lady probably gets a pretty good idea of what you write to her, however the translation from chinese to english is not so great.  Our experience has been that there are too many literal and possible translations for words coming from chinese to english that quite often the whole point gets lost.

As an example Zhen and I were discussing mortgages one day while we were sitting in a park in Handan.  It took over an hour to get the basic premise across because the electronic translator kept getting confused.  So first the agency runs the letter through the translation software they use in the agency then the live translator tries to adjust to make sense and you can see where so much confusion comes in.

As you send and receive more letters back and forth and assuming you keep the same translator throughout you will learn to interpret Fei's letters better.  Basically what you need to do is what has been said so many times before.  Work on the assumption that your lady is honest and sincere in her dealings with you and that the translator and agency are trying their best to help you both.  Yes there are bad agencies and bad translators but they are as far as I can see  in the minority.  Also keep in mind that each human translator has different levels of english skill and experience with western writings.  So each translator could in theory give your lady a slightly different version of your letter.  Sometimes all it takes is a couple of words difference to change the whole meaning of the letter, or even a word or two left out during typing or even mispelled words.

When I visited our agency with Zhen we met with the owner, our translator and several of the ladies and discussed things like this.  You must remember they are people too and sometimes when they(we) type we miss words or mispel words etc.  I pointed out a couple things in our letters and our translator admitted it was her error.  It takes time to get the hang of these letters and a feel for your translator and agency and lady.

Zhen and I have written at least one full length emf per day sometimes two each way since end of July.  That is a lot of emf's back and forward.  Now we have a webcam visit almost every morning for an hour and we still do emf's for the important stuff and to clear up what we thought we heard and said during the webcams  hehe.

This form of internet dating and seeking your future wife is most certainly one of the most difficult, confusing, frustrating and downright annoying ways of finding the love of your life.  However, if you ask any of the guys here, from those married, through us who are engaged, through those in a serious relationship and those heading in that direction I think they would all agree that it is soooooo worth it in the end.  However they will also tell you that it is a long difficult journey fraught with frustration and grief and confusion and of course great expense and it most certainly is not for everyone.

So there you have it John, a few (sic) words of maybe wisdom from yet another of us who have been where you are now and progressed on to being in the happiest guy in the world club, and I personally would not change a single step of the way.

Zhen and I are utterly happy and convinced that what we have is the be all and end all of marriage bliss.  Your mileage may of course vary since you are not me and Fei is not Zhen.

Good luck to you brother on your adventure, and if you are lucky I will keep my next response to a smaller book hehe

Regards, Zhen and Brian


PS, John I just went back and reread what you have written in your last posts and have to add a couple things.  First I think your lady is not writing to you while waiting for someone else to come along.  I think perhaps you are getting a little caught up in the negative stuff you have read and maybe getting a little paranoid!!   While its true that the ladies are as free as we are to write to multiple people, from my personal experience and from talking with some of the ladies at Zhen's agency and also some of her friends who are also on CHnlove they are for the most part on this journey for one thing only,  to find a husband.  They are not looking for pen pals or chatting buddies, they can do that on QQ or Skype or MSN or any other online chat program.

Those ladies who go to agencies and pay sometimes large fees are deadly serious about what they want from this process.  They want a husband to spend the rest of their life with. Thats it! Nothing Machiavelian or sordid or twisted or even weird.  They are just looking for the last love of their lives.
Also as for the fast replies dont forget the time difference.  Fei is probably getting your letters around the time she is finished work for the day and so has time to write to you immediately.  For Zhen and I over the summer that was the case but once her son went back to school it became a lot harder for Zhen to get to the agency and reply to my letters.