When the spirit is fading

[Willy The Londoner]

 I talked to my Chinese teacher at the university yesterday. She is from Shanxi province and she told me that she can't understand the Guangdong dialect. And she is Chinese! It is possible that all the Mandarin I have learned and am learning, is for sh*t. I should have known because I am familiar with the fact that there are plenty of different dialects in China. But I guess I was just swept away at some point...

Does anyone have experience talking Mandarin with people in or from southern China?

Right now I am standing in the middle of the road not knowing if I am to continue to the other side or turn back.

Yes the dialect is different to what you learn.  It is the same as them learning English - they are taught correct English with neutral dialect the same as your Mandarin has been.  But once here you will pick up the local dialect and adjust your words accordingly.  

Willy

[brett]

Dialects are confusing. My Mandarin speaking lady (from Hubei Province) tells me that she can't understand the Shanghai dialect very well. And yet she did work in Guangdong for a while and can undertstand Cantonese :huh:.

As I understand it, in Southern China the main language is Cantonese (and maybe Hakka dialects?). Mandarin is supposed to be taught in schools, but I guess the more highly educated a person is, the better their Mandarin would be.

I still think the long English tradition of shouting at foreigners until they understand is the best way to communicate lol :icon_cheesygrin:.

[David5o]

For all those worried about learning Mandarin and not  being able to talk to there ladies living in and around
Guangdong, don't worry too much, the official language that they were taught at school was Mandarin. Many Chinese move from mandarin speaking area's to live and work in and around Guangdong. So if they can get by, so can you....

The only problems you would face is if your lady were from Hong Kong, that is a pure Cantonese speaking area, and also only write in traditional Chinese, not simplified Chinese. I understand that Taiwan, also has major differences, with dialect to Mainland China...

David......

[Irishman]

Hans, in Guangdong its more than just a dialect, its a completely different language - Cantonese. Cantonese has seven tones compared to Mandarins five and is even harder to learn as a result. Unless you have family or grew up in the area there is no way you are going to understand it even if you speak Mandarin. Even to my ear its easy to tell the difference in the language, in the same way I can tell the difference between say German and Italian even though I speak neither language.

This is not like a regional dialect where the basic language is the same, just pronounced differently. For example my Ling can understand people from Shanghai even though they have their own regional dialect but she cannot understand Cantonese at all (I asked).

This extends also to the written, in Cantonese areas they write in Traditional Chinese compared to the Simplified Chinese used in Mandarin speaking areas. Most Chinese can read most of this but as a westerner it will be difficult to figure out that.

Most state TV is in Mandarin so most people in Guangdong province will speak Mandarin as well as Cantonese but some of the older folk wont.

[David5o]

Ronan,

Not quite right, stating that the Cantonese mainland provinces only use Cantonese and writing in Traditional Chinese. The official language as both written and spoken, relates to Mandarin, which is simplified Chinese. Only Hong Kong is pure Cantonese speaking, and pure traditional Chinese in there writing. This is how the migration of any Mainland Chinese from whatever area, can live and work in another, without the hindrance of language problems. Every Official government department and all official documents and paperwork will be in Mandarin, and simplified Chinese. Only in relatively recent times have they had Local dialect newspapers and TV channels that have been allowed to broadcast in local dialects The rest of your post is a good assessment of the situation....  

David...

[Hans]

Hans, in Guangdong its more than just a dialect, its a completely different language - Cantonese. Cantonese has seven tones compared to Mandarins five and is even harder to learn as a result. Unless you have family or grew up in the area there is no way you are going to understand it even if you speak Mandarin. Even to my ear its easy to tell the difference in the language, in the same way I can tell the difference between say German and Italian even though I speak neither language.

I am not talking about Cantonese, of course I know it's a completely different language. I was referring to the Mandarin spoken in Guangdong. My lady has told me that she speaks both Mandarin and Cantonese but naturally her Mandarin will not be the Beijing putonghua I am used to. Hence the problem. She doesn't seem concerned about this at all while I am very concerned about it. I guess I won't find out the result until we have spoken on the phone or via webcam.

[David K]

 

Willy, Priapist is the overuse of Viagra. lol

I dont want to be 'pist' in any language - I will stick with my overdose thanks!!!:icon_biggrin:

Willy

Foreploy: Any misrepresentation about yourself for the  purpose
   of getting laid.  :icon_biggrin:

[Chinese Knot]

OK, I have to get this off my chest. I apologize for the length of this text.

I have been corresponding with my lady since early May now and I have felt more and more confident that we will actually meet like we have discussed. Nothing has indicated so far that she is fake or that she is corresponding with other men (knock on wood). We correspond every two or three days (that is what I have time for right now) and write short emails in Chinese as well.

I only have one problem. From the very beginning she has been sending me studio pictures. We talked early on about meeting via webcam and talking on the phone. She seemed very eager to do it. Then she said that since the agency is so far away and she would like to have an interpreter with her the first time we meet on a webcam, maybe we should wait. I was disappointed but accepted that she was shy. I asked for her phone number and she replied that her phone didn't have an international service so I could not call her. I asked for her number again and said that I wanted to try anyway, I could send a text message and we would both see if she received it or not. No reply.

I have kept asking for REAL pictures of her, she has kept replying that she does not have a camera. I suggested that maybe she could use her phone to take some pictures. She replied that the quality would be bad and when I told her I didn't care about the pixel quality she finally sent me two pictures (apparently not taken with a phone but with an ordniary camera). I was very happy and thought that maybe she had borrowed a camera from a friend. But no, she suddenly "found" the pictures in her computer.

I sent her a hand written letter in Chinese. She was very happy and excited when she got it and took two photos of it. So suddenly she has got a camera now? About the webcam suggestion: She lives in a dormitory at her company but has a computer in her room which she uses to send the letters to the agency. So what is the problem? She apparently has a camera at her disposal and she does have her own computer, still she is not willing do to anything else but write EMF letters and emails. I keep sending her pictures of me but I never get anything back (she send romantic pictures and music but honestly I would prefer pictures of her, not hearts and flowers).

I have thought about these issues more and more and to be honest, I am pretty disappointed. I understand that she is shy. But if she can't even send me pictures because of it, what will happen when we finally meet (trip scheduled for December)? Will she hide behind a tree? As a student going to China is a big economic commitment for me. I don't want to go there not feeling entirely commited to her. If I am going in December, I would like to have more certainty about this woman. Letters are not enough. Just like a girl said to me recently: "People can write anything in letters, it's easy to write I love you. A child can do that."

She has sent me a "gift" in the mail, it would take up to two weeks to arrive so I am waiting to see what it is before I decide anything drastic. But right now, I feel the spirit is slowly fading away (the first sign is that the letters are harder to write).

Hello Hans

I have  just read your thread and all post from other brothers . Yes, you are a young guy  , but you know many our brothers have young heart here , We were born in the same period , but we can communicate with other brothers very well , because we come here and talk to each other with our young and honest heart ,   It seems all of brothers are very young at heart , haha I think age is just a state of mind , you will be always young when you have the passion for life ,right ?

Well , speaking of your questions , I noticed that you have received the gift of your lady , that sounds great .  As for the natural pictures and webcam , other brothers's words are right , firstly, some person don't want to show their real face ,because they are afraid that you will not like their real faces . Secondly , their poor English . Thirdly , the girl think you are not the right person for her , so this is a excuse . Fourthly , the issue of translator and agency .  You said it is difficult for your girl to have a webcam meeting , because there is a long way .right ?

Hans,  you would better continue to ask the natural pictures of the girl if it is really difficult for her  to find the webcab .  If you think the girl is right for you when you see her natural picture , maybe you can consider your China trip , yes, I know you are studying in the school ,but  you have right to find your love as our other brothers ,if you  still want to come to China , I will give you my suggestions for an economical way for you , I will use my resources  to help you arrange your trip , I just hope you will not miss your girl . Of course , this happens before you know your girl better , if she is not right for you ,don't worry  ,I know some honest ladies who really want to find their life partner , Maybe I can introduce some right person for you . haha  . anyway, you are still young and there must be a right person who is waiting for you in the world .
 
By the way , I read a lot of the words of mandarin and cantonese here from our brothers .  Do you want to study Mandarin in China ? When ?

Truly speaking , it is easy to recognize the Mandarin and Cantonese .  I want to tell you and all brothers here , Mandarin is the offical language in China , most of the Chinese people (undertand Mandarin though some place has their own dialects  . Usually speaking , China has seven main big dialects ,including Mandarin and Cantonese . But China government advocate the Mandarin as offical languages , the students learn mandarin from their primary school , so now most of the Chinese people can understand Mandarin rather than cantonese .  Cantonese another dialect ,it is popula in Guangdong provinces ,includes Hong Kong , Macao and other Chinese people in south asia .  We also call Shanghai dialect Wu dialect , it is usually popular in Shanghai and Jiangsu provinces , so brothers , now you can understand that most the Chinese people understand Mandarin, but it is difficult for the Chinese people who are not  from Guangdong and Shanghai understand Cantonese  and Shanghai dialects .   I also study western language and culture and know you also have dialects , I meet many foreigners from many countries of the world . Really nice to talk to them , I am sure our world is great just because of the great difference ,right ?  Hope we can exchange more in the near future .

Anyway , it seems that I talked a lot , hope that will not bother you and all brothers , spirt can not be fading , but rising , because world is great , right ? Good luck ! :heart:

[brett]

Chinese Knot - do Shanghai people speak a dialect of Mandarin? If so why do other Chinese find it difficult to speak the language there? I am interested because my lady's mother lived in Shanghai until she was 5, but apparently she can't speak the Shanghai dialect.

I am a bit disppointed by this, because if I eventually moved to China then I would prefer to live somewhere near the sea and with a climate that isn't too sub-tropical. Shanghai appeared to fit the bill, but if my lady can't speak the language it's probably a bit of a non-starter :huh:.

Actually, I'm not sure that in the West we have dialects of English. Sure, Americans and British have different words for things, but we can generally communicate with no problems. What we do have is accents - American and British accents are quite different. Then within countries we have made different accents. In New York, the strong Brooklyn accent of the subway drivers was obvious! In the UK, the different regions have different accents. Even within the UK an experienced listener such as myself can tell if somebody from the west country is from Bristol or Plymouth.

The UK does have a minority population that speaks Welsh or Cornish, but I guess these are completely different languages rather than dialects.

[Irishman]

My Ling can understand Shanghai people just fine, she's only been there before on vacation.
I dunno if its them speaking Mandarin with a Shanghai accent but i do recall one time on the monorail in Kuala Lumpur there was a bunch of Chinese people chatting and she told me they were from Shanghai. So it would seem its not a totally different language like French or German

[David5o]

Brett,

What he's saying is that Shanghai or the Wu dialect is a different language to Mandarin. But they and everyone else, from the time that Mandarin was made the official language of China, can speak and understand Mandarin and Simplified Chinese writing.

I would imagine when they speak Mandarin, it will be with an accent, i suppose being similar to the accent difference of say, a Londoner and  Northerner in the UK.

So all it means is that you get used to the way that they speak Mandarin in that area where you want to live. That will apply to most areas where they had or spoke a different language/dialect before Mandarin became the official Language of China. Probably due to the different tonal sounds between the different languages/dialects..... For sure, they will be able to understand your classical Mandarin!!

David....

[Neil]

Nina spoke Mandarin the whole time I was there.  I never asked if she speaks or can understand Cantonese.  Nina lives in Zhongshan though spent most of her life in Guangzhou but was born in Yunan province (not sure what dialect/language is spoken there).  I was surprised and impressed that the mandarin I had been studying is the mandarin that she speaks.  We did a lot of "what's this in English/Chinese" while I was there, though she refused to tell me what the Chinese word for breasts was.  /sigh  I could also pick the odd word out that I recognized while she talked.  

From what I've heard, the Mandarin spoken in Beijing only differs slightly from the Mandarin spoken anywhere else.  It's more of an accent.  That's just what I've heard though.  Can anyone confirm?

[David5o]

Neil,


Confirmed!!......


David....

[Arnold]

I don't know you Guy's , that would be on the bottom of my list . If it feels good , why ask what it's called ? haha

[Chinese Knot]

Hello Brett here

Yes, I think it is easier for Shanghai people speak Mandarin , but Shanghai Dialect is different from Mandarin , the accent is very different . Because our government advocate Mandarin as the official language and we learn ,read in Mandarin in the school , so most of Chinese people can speak Mandarin though some of them have their own dialects .  It is normal that your lady's mother can not speak the Shanghai dialect , maybe this is related to her working and living environment , but  maybe some words of her Mandarin has some accent of Shanghai dialect , if you listen carefully , it is very interesting to listen Shanghai dialect .

Please don't be disappointed , because most the Chinese people speak Mandarin , even though you move to Shanghai , it is also easy for you and the lady to live and work there as long as you understand Mandarin .  What's more, Shanghai is an international city and more and more people can speak English , so please have more confidence for your future life . Anyway , you can learn more Mandarin later .   Good  Luck ! :heart:

Chinese Knot - do Shanghai people speak a dialect of Mandarin? If so why do other Chinese find it difficult to speak the language there? I am interested because my lady's mother lived in Shanghai until she was 5, but apparently she can't speak the Shanghai dialect.

I am a bit disppointed by this, because if I eventually moved to China then I would prefer to live somewhere near the sea and with a climate that isn't too sub-tropical. Shanghai appeared to fit the bill, but if my lady can't speak the language it's probably a bit of a non-starter :huh:.

Actually, I'm not sure that in the West we have dialects of English. Sure, Americans and British have different words for things, but we can generally communicate with no problems. What we do have is accents - American and British accents are quite different. Then within countries we have made different accents. In New York, the strong Brooklyn accent of the subway drivers was obvious! In the UK, the different regions have different accents. Even within the UK an experienced listener such as myself can tell if somebody from the west country is from Bristol or Plymouth.

The UK does have a minority population that speaks Welsh or Cornish, but I guess these are completely different languages rather than dialects.